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Old 09-30-2011, 02:48 PM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,622,074 times
Reputation: 1191

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
That's what every christian does every day. Want to try and prove something, cherry pick the parts that match, ignore the rest.

Want to say god is all about love, simply omit the parts about 2+ million murders directed by this loving god, or his little tantrums where he murdered 99.999%+ of all life on the planet.
I don't mean to keep picking on you... but you mentioned picking, so I will.
We can't help but cherry pick what we're aware of, what works for us... & leave the majority behind.

Asheville, You might like this quote from the cherry-picked- book...
"The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going." - Proberbs 14:15

Although there are constants of life... we must eat, sleep, do good to others to get along & feel happy... Common sense stuff.
Yet, I think it's essential to redefine gospel terms... as we develop psychologically & spiritually.
I grew up with a strict & life-consuming religion & still go.
To keep my sanity, I've found that if when someone preaches, I consider a more meaningful definition, their sermon can actually be inspiring!
Some gospel definitions I've reconsidered...

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Atonement: Harmonize so that ego & higher self are "at one," correcting mistakes when possible
Celestial: Christ/Divine Consciousness
Commandments: Scritpure/learned & Spiritual/Intuitive guidance
Covenants with God: Covenants/Promises with LOVE
Cross/Lamb: Ours & others' sacrifices for spiritual progress
God: Pure Love
Gospel: "Good New" - new perspectives of truth
"He lives": Love lives & Spiritual help is always available
Jesus: Guide to Christ Consciousness (His life represents spiritual steps)
Kingdom of God/Heaven: Spiritual Connection resonated from within, Realm/energy of God within us & in all
Love: Desiring & striving for what's best eternally (in life- through trial & error)
Repent: Correct one's thinking
Salvation: Healed by correcting one's thinking - toward Christ Consciousness Satan/Adversary: Unhealed parts of us; incorrect thinking that ultimately causes pain
Savior/Redeemer: Those that help us (in body & spirit)
Sin/Evil: Incorrect thinking, avoidance of truth
Temple: Our body, mind & soul... or a place to connect spiritually
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:27 PM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,837,104 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
What would be the purpose of drastically re-writing the Bible if not to rewrite history?
Perhaps because there's not much history in The Bible. And what little is in it consists of rewritten history to begin with. Most of the Bible is plagiarized material.
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:30 PM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,837,104 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
"Who else thinks the bible drastically needs to be rewritten?"

If you think rewriting history is a good thing. You wouldn't be the first Atheist/Agnostic to attempt to do it.
Ehh no, Christians and religionists are the experts at rewriting history (prime example being the "America was founded as a Christian nation" BS).

I am not aware of any Atheists or agnostics who have done so.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:23 PM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,837,104 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
I could rewrite it in a few words:

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
Be kind.
Treat others with respect.
Help where you can.

Actually if you condensed the Bible it would read more like:

Women are cattle
Kill, persecute and/or enslave those who do not believe in your god
Do whatever you want, Jesus will forgive you.
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Old 09-30-2011, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,276 posts, read 13,419,341 times
Reputation: 14173
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
That struggle to make the bible relevant, indeed ever new and ever powerful, in its message through interpretation, is one of the majestic, wonderful things about rabbinic Judaism.
Really? Okay, so how does the wonderful rabbinic Judaism re-interpret "It's perfectly okay to rape and sodomize a woman so long as you marry her afterward."
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:37 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,173,149 times
Reputation: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Really? Okay, so how does the wonderful rabbinic Judaism re-interpret "It's perfectly okay to rape and sodomize a woman so long as you marry her afterward."
Remember the context: the Ancient Near East. Violence was common, war was common, slavery was common, women viewed as property was common. I'm not justifying any of this - just pointing it out. Don't let modern political views cloud your view of ancient peoples.

The Pharisees were very liberal in how they interpreted the Torah, in addition to the Oral Tradition they espoused. They were very lenient - much more so than the Qumran community, as one example. They tried to make the laws easier to follow by the people, and wrestled with some aspects of the laws they saw as despicable. For instance, the law about stoning a rebellious son is frequently commented on as never having been actually carried out. The rabbis felt that no parents would ever be as cruel to do such a thing. Whether this is true or not does not affect the fact that Judaism has been wrestling with, evolving this harsh law.

Later rabbinic teachings and writings would wrestle with the same issues, and many of these laws evolved over time. It's a vast subject, with the Talmud as one of the major witnesses to rabbis trying to update ancient laws and proscriptions to make them applicable to the people of their own time. Times changed. It's not as if Judaism just stopped with the Torah. Or with the Greek New Testament. It did not. It has been evolving ever since, and still evolves. It's a little unfair to condemn an entire religion based on aspects of it's ancient practices. Most rabbis share your concern - if you take the time to explore them, you'll find them very sympathetic to your view.
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:49 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,173,149 times
Reputation: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
Perhaps because there's not much history in The Bible. And what little is in it consists of rewritten history to begin with. Most of the Bible is plagiarized material.
Remember that when the majority of the Tanakh was written, it was not with the express purpose of telling objective history as we would be familiar with it. That would have to wait until Thucydides, if we discount Herodotus' attempt. There is genuine history in the Tanakh, but much of it is told through the lens of theological objectives and must be backed up with extra-Biblical sources.

Much of the Primeval History (Genesis 1-11) is made up of creation stories, etiological stories, genealogies, and myths. I don't think anyone, today, considers any of this section as historical, or even an attempt at rewriting history. If anything, the Primeval History took a twisting path to the form in which we have it now - and while it borrows many motifs and ideas from other cultures, it also engages in dialogue with some of these stories: note the first chapter in which it could be argued that the first Creative story is a polemic against the Babylonian Creation story - Enuma Elish. This is an oversimplification - but so is saying that there's not much history in the Bible, and it's just plagiarized, anyways.

Nobody disputes that there were several kingdoms in Palestine (Israel and Judah) and that they were both eventually invaded, with the elites of each country taken away into exile. Nobody disputes that the Persians allowed the Judahites to eventually return to their land. Nobody disputes that the rise of Alexander the Great eventually gave way to the rise of the Roman Empire. All these things can be corroborated by secondary extra-Biblical sources.

The Patriarchs? No - probably not. King David? The verdict is still out. Noah's ark? No.... But the later history of Israel in the North and it's fall, and Judah in the South and it's fall - is well attested. After that, the history becomes much more reliable - though certain aspects are still tinged with theological issues.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:50 PM
 
664 posts, read 673,959 times
Reputation: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
That's what every christian does every day. Want to try and prove something, cherry pick the parts that match, ignore the rest.

Want to say god is all about love, simply omit the parts about 2+ million murders directed by this loving god, or his little tantrums where he murdered 99.999%+ of all life on the planet.

i think you're wrong for saying this. you don't know what people are doing. i'm sure that every christians doesn't do that. i mean come on, do you really believe that every Christian does that?
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Old 10-01-2011, 11:02 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,173,149 times
Reputation: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
I don't mean to keep picking on you... but you mentioned picking, so I will.
We can't help but cherry pick what we're aware of, what works for us... & leave the majority behind.

Asheville, You might like this quote from the cherry-picked- book...
"The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going." - Proberbs 14:15

Although there are constants of life... we must eat, sleep, do good to others to get along & feel happy... Common sense stuff.
Yet, I think it's essential to redefine gospel terms... as we develop psychologically & spiritually.
I grew up with a strict & life-consuming religion & still go.
To keep my sanity, I've found that if when someone preaches, I consider a more meaningful definition, their sermon can actually be inspiring!
Some gospel definitions I've reconsidered...

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Atonement: Harmonize so that ego & higher self are "at one," correcting mistakes when possible
Celestial: Christ/Divine Consciousness
Commandments: Scritpure/learned & Spiritual/Intuitive guidance
Covenants with God: Covenants/Promises with LOVE
Cross/Lamb: Ours & others' sacrifices for spiritual progress
God: Pure Love
Gospel: "Good New" - new perspectives of truth
"He lives": Love lives & Spiritual help is always available
Jesus: Guide to Christ Consciousness (His life represents spiritual steps)
Kingdom of God/Heaven: Spiritual Connection resonated from within, Realm/energy of God within us & in all
Love: Desiring & striving for what's best eternally (in life- through trial & error)
Repent: Correct one's thinking
Salvation: Healed by correcting one's thinking - toward Christ Consciousness Satan/Adversary: Unhealed parts of us; incorrect thinking that ultimately causes pain
Savior/Redeemer: Those that help us (in body & spirit)
Sin/Evil: Incorrect thinking, avoidance of truth
Temple: Our body, mind & soul... or a place to connect spiritually
Maybe that's why my significant other never listens when I ask her to clean the dishes (or some other common shared household chore): she's maturing spiritually to deal with what she considers my preaching, and reinterpreting "Please" (If you feel like it) "will" (don't) "you" (your inner child) "clean" (ignore) "the" (kittens are cute) "dishes" (fridge of all tasty food) "?" (stern imperative tense)

That would explain a lot. She's just rewriting my words to better fit her own version of cherry-picking!
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:40 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,633,045 times
Reputation: 9494
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
Much of the Primeval History (Genesis 1-11) is made up of creation stories, etiological stories, genealogies, and myths. I don't think anyone, today, considers any of this section as historical.
I absolutely do, as well as many other Christians. I fear you are burdened by too much learning. Worldly knowledge can hinder faith, and faith is by far the more important.
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