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Old 10-02-2011, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,502,834 times
Reputation: 7377

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I've only been Episcopalian for 15 years, so perhaps it was true back in the olden days. I won't argue with you over that one, Woodrow. I think the lectionary has always been in place as the order of worship, but I don't know if people were encouraged to read on their own or not.

I was raised in the Reformed Church of America (a descendant of the Dutch Reformed Church) and we did read the bible, all the time. Memorized verses as kids, and by third grade I could recite the books of the bible in order. More of a fear-death-and-hell denomination, though, than the Episcopal church.

Whether bible reading is encouraged in a church or not, it's going to boil down to the individual anyway and their own desire to study or lack thereof.
We do agree it is all up to the individual. We alone are responsible for our own choices and can not blame anyone except our selves for what we do or fail to do.

Sort of a paradox although I do not believe the Bible to be fully accurate, I do my best to encourage Christians to read it. Strange words from a Muslim.

I just personally feel that a person should but effort into their beliefs and investigate all things, learning to verify on their own and not take the explanations of any living human without verifying them. Just my Opinion, Astagfirullah (May Allaah forgive me if I am in error)
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,061,524 times
Reputation: 3717
Default "BBbbbHHhhhhAaaaaaaaaa...."

Re: "thou shalt have no carved icon" [note: paraphrased...I no longer keep such space-wasting memories intact in my head...] stuff, why, pray tell, is there then a really big wooden icon carving (or more recently, epoxy-resin or styrofoam, Christ on a Cross) up at the front of most every church hall?

I call that absolute, wanton iconism. As in: a physical adulation and focal form for easy supplication & subjugation. They even provide convenient kneeling cushions, fur heaven's sake! I frequently see images of purely sheepl-eque immigrant peasants crawling up to kiss, or place flowers at, or wail loudly, at the feet of these crucifix icons.

combine this...

Image Detail for - http://forerunnerkorea.org/files/people_praying_friday_night/P1020526_mid_1.JPG

with this...

Image Detail for - http://www.stjohnsplymouth.org/Crucifix1PEL1.jpg

to achieve this...

Image Detail for - http://www.israelimages.com/searchresult_watermark.php?image=Web-Regular/18279.jpg&watermark_text=5850&watermark_co lor=ffffff&stylesee=left_down

Independent thinking, yah think?

(Of course, there are some evolutionary survival advantages to congressing into a flock. It confuses the dark predators like Satan; harder to choose a specific lone victim this way, from a milling mass of potential and near-identical [as in: acting and thinking...] targets!

(Google Images)
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:56 AM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,202 posts, read 50,480,930 times
Reputation: 60090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
We do agree it is all up to the individual. We alone are responsible for our own choices and can not blame anyone except our selves for what we do or fail to do.

Sort of a paradox although I do not believe the Bible to be fully accurate, I do my best to encourage Christians to read it. Strange words from a Muslim.

I just personally feel that a person should but effort into their beliefs and investigate all things, learning to verify on their own and not take the explanations of any living human without verifying them. Just my Opinion, Astagfirullah (May Allaah forgive me if I am in error)

Not so strange. I read your personal story.

And I agree with your last paragraph.
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:47 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,228,573 times
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They are trained to be afraid of supernatural beings that do not exist, often starting before they can walk. I consider it child abuse, abuse that lasts a life time, with silly fears such as a spook with red skin, horns and tail. I find it stunningly ignorant that people that are supposed to be adults are still living in terror of a fairy tale.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:50 PM
 
7,092 posts, read 5,451,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Wouldn't biblically illiterate church-goers have less reason to fear the Devil than their more studied counterparts?
Actually, the biblically illiterate do not seem to feel the need to read their Bible (completely) They can also be intimidated by reading the Bible due to it being pumped up as this extremely cryptic book that means anything but what it says. This book is unique in the way that it is read.

Many people that I've seen with the Bible do not read the whole book, they just take certain favorite verses and read it, often out of context. Then there are the pastors and preachers that teach the denominational doctrine that is actually in conflict with what the Bible actually says.

In U.S. Christian churches, a lot more emphasis is placed on heaven and hell than the Bible puts on it. There is also a lot of emphasis placed on when the world will end, or when Jesus will return. However, the Bible is mostly about living here now.

I'm only speaking from my experience. I don't know everyone. However, I have read the Bible all the way at least once. The church teachings and the Bible teachings are so radically different that you just have to wonder.

It is the religious leaders that place strong emphasis on the Devil and promote his power (a form of devil worship it seems). The Bible is where you find what the Devil and hell actually is. He is nowhere near as big as they make him out to be. Even still, there's God. So you really have nothing to worry about.
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
He is nowhere near as big as they make him out to be.
I disagree.
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:46 PM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,202 posts, read 50,480,930 times
Reputation: 60090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
They are trained to be afraid of supernatural beings that do not exist, often starting before they can walk. I consider it child abuse, abuse that lasts a life time, with silly fears such as a spook with red skin, horns and tail. I find it stunningly ignorant that people that are supposed to be adults are still living in terror of a fairy tale.
I doubt very much that even people who are afraid of the devil seriously think it looks like that. It's an unseen evil lurking in the darkness that is the real fear.
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,502,834 times
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The Shaytan are very much real and all of us do face a Shaytan every moment of our life. The most frightening aspect of shaytan is often the Shaytan will seem to be not existent.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:08 PM
 
5,187 posts, read 5,414,787 times
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A Christian should never fear or ever be afraid of the devil, that is ludicrous.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:00 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,228,573 times
Reputation: 8261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I doubt very much that even people who are afraid of the devil seriously think it looks like that. It's an unseen evil lurking in the darkness that is the real fear.
The appearance isn't the issue, it is the stupidity exhibited in the belief they exist.
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