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Old 10-02-2011, 09:50 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 3,981,589 times
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Hello?!?! Where is this movie???
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,942,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post

As an atheist, I think storytelling, creative writing, fiction of all striped, art, dance, music, and deep emotion are essential parts of what makes us human. I would never want any of these to be diminished in any way. I read fantasy and science fiction, not because I believe in dragons and aliens, but because a good author uses these devices to show us something of our own human nature. I do not, however, believe that a literal belief in fiction is appropriate for a mature, rational human being. In this I think I am in agreement with most theists, with the one exception of their particular holy writings or stories, which I also classify as fiction and treat accordingly.

NoCapo
You forgot two... let me help you. Religion and spirituality. They too are what make us human. If you don't want something that makes us human to be taken from us, they you would support those that do believe in it, not question them, and just go about your life believing what YOU want and not interfering with their lives.

Now, when they go and try to make laws to enforce their religion or even lack of religion, that is where the line must be drawn. Have it in your own life, share it if you want to, but leave it out of the government. If you choose to share it, be sure that it is to those that wish to hear it. Don't go door to door, don't post signs or billboards, pass out fliers, or harass people on the street. BTW, This doesn't just go for theists...
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
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Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
In other words, it's about listening to atheists and then making up what you want to pretend we said.
This whole blame them theists stuff is getting old. You act as if only theists do this. Atheists do this all the time, they also ignore whole points and pretend it didn't happen, when they are wrong.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Do I hear crickets?
Sorry, it was a big day for me. I do have a life outside of pointing out the obvious.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:15 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 3,981,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
This whole blame them theists stuff is getting old. You act as if only theists do this. Atheists do this all the time, they also ignore whole points and pretend it didn't happen, when they are wrong.
You mean like posting the movie or explaining where you saw it? I checked Amazon and couldn't find this movie. Where is it?
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
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Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt View Post
Using one's imagination is fantastic and great. But, when one can no longer distinguish between fantasy and reality, that is when it becomes problematic.
I agree, but, I would same the same when one is no longer able to use their imagination.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
You still appear to be choosing to misrepresent the "New Atheists". In the interest of full disclosure, I have not read all of the authors that get lumped in this category, but the authors I have read do not appear to have ANY issue with imagination or creativity. They encourage these things as part of the human experience.

What they that issue with is when human fantasy, creativity, and imagination is treated as incontrovertible revealed truth that must be upheld at all costs. This is NOT encouraging human creativity and expression, but stifling it.

The "New Atheists" are not saying anything different than most of us non-theists. They are, however, not coddling the sensibilities of those who believe that their personal fantasy is above criticism. To be honest, after centuries of being demonized (often quite literally), told that we are immoral, incomplete, and not worthy of being treated as real human beings, is it any wonder some can get a bit strident?

NoCapo
A phrase you included in that post that you shouldn't have. Personal fantasy, if it is a personal fantasy, religion, or belief. It is above criticism. Just as your personal beliefs are above criticism. It is when you tell other people they have to believe in them as you do that they are allowed to be criticized. I do not require you to believe what I do. Just don't bash what I believe in.

For instance, If I post a thread about something spiritual, if it isn't something you believe in, leave it be. Don't post your unwanted comments in the thread. As I would do the same for you. This is where atheism and theism needs to focus on. Leave the other alone and all will be well.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:38 PM
 
3,369 posts, read 2,154,258 times
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Default Religion as a part of human experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
You forgot two... let me help you. Religion and spirituality. They too are what make us human. If you don't want something that makes us human to be taken from us, they you would support those that do believe in it, not question them, and just go about your life believing what YOU want and not interfering with their lives.

Now, when they go and try to make laws to enforce their religion or even lack of religion, that is where the line must be drawn. Have it in your own life, share it if you want to, but leave it out of the government. If you choose to share it, be sure that it is to those that wish to hear it. Don't go door to door, don't post signs or billboards, pass out fliers, or harass people on the street. BTW, This doesn't just go for theists...
If religion and spirituality were kept personal, you might have a point. As it stands, they are not, and in many cases cannot be by definition. Keeping religion out of law is a struggle that has been happening in the United States since its inception. It is a batle that still needs to be fought, as evidenced by the Texas school curriculum, the continuing battles over school prayer, and even things that we have come to accept as mere inconveniences such as blue laws and Sunday mail delivery. In addition there are the non-governmental social pressures. It is societally unacceptable to not believe in many areas. Because of the misconceptions about atheists that are taught form the pulpit and spread by intentionally misleading characterizations like yours, being "the atheist" in a work or social setting can case one to become a pariah. This is particularly true in regions like the Southeast.

I, and I believe most of the "New Atheists", would not condone governmental suppression of religion, but will be very relieved when religions of all stripes, either by choice or by lack of public support, stop trying to remake the world according to their dogmas.

I agree that religion and spirituality are a very important part of the human experience. In my opinion they fill the same sorts of roles as xenophobia and bigotry. That is they are ideas and attitudes that served and may still serve an evolutionary purpose. That does not mean they must be given respect and honor. They do little more that divide and demarcate groups of people so that each group knows who they can mistreat, how they are allowed to do so, and to what extent.

NoCapo
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,942,785 times
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Originally Posted by peppermint View Post
Hello?!?! Where is this movie???
I just came across it. There are two versions of it. One is done by atheists, the other is a response by Christians. Both are bad messages that are being spread.

People like Richard Dawkins see religion as a "poison" and the future of society depends on its removal, science replaces it, and atheism leads to a better life. The proponents of the new atheism are evangelistic, clever and energetic, attracting worldwide publicity and enormous funding. It is nothing more than a money game. Get people to buy my book that claims to have proof of God not existing and make millions off of a bunch of suckers.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,942,785 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppermint View Post
You mean like posting the movie or explaining where you saw it? I checked Amazon and couldn't find this movie. Where is it?
I got both copies from a friend of mine. Yes, he is an atheists. He doesn't agree with the movement either. Thinks it is too extreme.
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