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Old 01-04-2013, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Oxford, England
1,266 posts, read 953,312 times
Reputation: 115

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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
I do agree with you, though - they totally screwed up that word, and it's a shame that parthenos was used when it probably should not have been. It gave later Christians fuel to misinterpret these verses to apply to Jesus, when it's pretty clear from the text itself and the surrounding context that the sign was fullfilled rather quickly in the time when it was made.
I take it you've never read R. de Sousa, ‘Is the Choice of parthenos in LXX Isa. 7:14 Theologically Motivated?’, Journal of Semitic Studies 53.2 (2008): 211–32.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,079 posts, read 8,612,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If we would just trust that God has "written in our hearts" the truth and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us to it . . . we would find it. It is simple . . . agape love, period. If we would be Christ-like or resonate with our loving God . . . we need to create a loving state of mind through "love of God and each other" daily and by repenting when we don't. It is simple . . . and we need not be a rocket scientist to understand it. We certainly don't need a bunch of jargonese rationalizations that defy common sense.
I agree that love is a key, acceptance of self and of others and recognition of our interconnectedness. I don't see god(s) as a necessary ingredient for that. But even with god(s) in the picture for thousands of years there is still the problem of suffering: we are all damaged goods. I know for instance someone whose very nature is extraordinarily loving and giving but they nevertheless have great difficulty being open, vulnerable, intimate and trusting because of childhood abuse of various kinds, and they struggle with addiction issues as well. I have nothing to offer them in that regard and neither does religion (or, in large measure, psychiatry). This state of affairs persists regardless of our elevated ideas about love. In some ways the old Tina Turner song is right, "What's love got to do with it? What's love but a second-hand emotion?" If we want a game changer it takes love, but also something more. Love by itself is not sufficiently redemptive.

I have no answer to that but neither do the gods. They've had their chance.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Bayview, NSW, Australia
104 posts, read 85,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
That it is the word of God?

That it is inerrant?

That it is true?
If we are talking about the NT, I believe the reverse can be inferred.

Quote:
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
The mere existence of this indicates that in order to discern truth, one needs Divine help. That being the case, it is clearly possible to get things wrong. Actually given that the number of Christian dialects exceed 41,000 Divine guidance appears to not be working for all. These guys all have access to the same words, so what then is the value of "inerrancy"? Clearly by the time the printed word reaches the mind/brain it is not understood the same way.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:33 AM
 
188 posts, read 254,689 times
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People who believe in God are broken in my opinion because there is actually no evidence of a loving God. If there was a God the world would have looked a lot better than it does now and more people would have been helped and saved.

I do not mean to offend anyone but religion is probably just a tool to control the people and to keep them in line, people who would not be so happy to accept their miserable lot in life if they knew the truth. Religion is probably just a coping mechanism to help people accept the dreadful and terrible things that happen in this world, such as mass starvation, earthquakes, fire, flooding, illness, etc. because its 'all part of God's plan' and so on. It also helps them cope with the prospect of death and the loss of loved ones.

The way I see all religion is nothing more than an attempt to control the people by enforcing 'laws' that come from a higher authority that is beyond challenge. It is used as an extremely powerful tool to keep people 'in line'. It is particularly useful in circumstances where the population are under some kind of duress, be it poverty, starvation, tyranny or whatever, because then the powers that rule will assure you that you must accept your lot, lead a good life, don't rock the boat and cause any trouble, and you will be rewarded in the next life (though not in this life of course which we admit can be pretty horrible, but only after you die and go to paradise).

The more you apply cold logic to it, the more senseless and totally meaningless the whole charade becomes, except as a means of control.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,094,487 times
Reputation: 3718
Default Wait... you mean...???

Oh say it isn't so, Mr. Freak!

You make it all sound so... so... contrived!

"OMG! What about our End Times Salvation? I've been tithing a lot down at my church. Isn't that worth something? Like... don't I get to the head of the line?"
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Boone, NC
1,047 posts, read 1,906,971 times
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Who cares. It could says that it's inerrant and true on every page, but I'm still disinclined to believe a book based solely on its own claim of authority.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:35 PM
 
188 posts, read 254,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Oh say it isn't so, Mr. Freak!
If there was a God then there wouldn't be people in terrible suffering and in excruciating pain. I think you can agree with me on that. The world would be a lot better for everybody if there really was a loving God.

Also if there really was a loving God then those who are poor, hungry and destitute and have no options and no one to turn to will definitely receive financial help from God. I mean why would a loving God not help those poor people financially? But the fact that these people do not get any help from God, proves to me that either God does not exist or that God is just not able to help those people financially.

The fact that there is terrible pain and suffering is evidence of Darwinian genetic design and is NOT evidence of a loving God.

Also why would a loving God threaten people with eternal torment in Hell. Few teachings have troubled the human conscience over the centuries more than the traditional view of hell as the place where the lost will suffer conscious punishment in body and soul for all eternity.

The prospect that one day a vast number of people will be consigned to the everlasting torment of hell is most disturbing and distressing to sensitive Christians. After all, almost everyone has friends or family members who have died without making a commitment to Christ. The prospect of one day seeing them agonizing in hell for all eternity can easily lead thinking, moral Christians to say to God: "No thank you God. I am not interested in Your kind of paradise!"

Last edited by Mr. Freak; 01-05-2013 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Bayview, NSW, Australia
104 posts, read 85,300 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Freak View Post
People who believe in God are broken in my opinion because there is actually no evidence of a loving God. If there was a God the world would have looked a lot better than it does now and more people would have been helped and saved.
I hope that you can see this is an opinion, a view, and emanates from your vision of how a God should operate. So while you don't believe in "God" the God you don't believe in is constructed to fit your view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Freak View Post
I do not mean to offend anyone but religion is probably just a tool to control the people and to keep them in line, people who would not be so happy to accept their miserable lot in life if they knew the truth. Religion is probably just a coping mechanism to help people accept the dreadful and terrible things that happen in this world, such as mass starvation, earthquakes, fire, flooding, illness, etc. because its 'all part of God's plan' and so on. It also helps them cope with the prospect of death and the loss of loved ones.
That religion has been used to control, manipulate and emerge with wealth is indisputable. What is disputable that there exists no basis for those religions. You would have it man created all this just for the purpose of control. I submit that man has always recognized a higher power, and along the way, others have used that, and continue to use that to their benefit. Its no different really to what man does generally. The internet has been a great source of allowing seekers to discover that for hundreds of years there have been many people walking their own path. In fact that path is quite crowded - the I walk alone path that is.

The point that you are conveniently overlooking, is that the churches are emptying. Folks are walking alone. Sure some have taken up your position, but many others, far more, just walk alone trying to figure things, but have not given up on God.
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Old 08-08-2017, 09:23 PM
 
7 posts, read 1,333 times
Reputation: 14
Very interesting posts about belief systems you all have. Learning from each of you.
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Old 08-08-2017, 09:54 PM
 
10,226 posts, read 10,602,208 times
Reputation: 3071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_in_Aus View Post
I hope that you can see this is an opinion, a view, and emanates from your vision of how a God should operate. So while you don't believe in "God" the God you don't believe in is constructed to fit your view.



That religion has been used to control, manipulate and emerge with wealth is indisputable. What is disputable that there exists no basis for those religions. You would have it man created all this just for the purpose of control. I submit that man has always recognized a higher power, and along the way, others have used that, and continue to use that to their benefit. Its no different really to what man does generally. The internet has been a great source of allowing seekers to discover that for hundreds of years there have been many people walking their own path. In fact that path is quite crowded - the I walk alone path that is.

The point that you are conveniently overlooking, is that the churches are emptying. Folks are walking alone. Sure some have taken up your position, but many others, far more, just walk alone trying to figure things, but have not given up on God.
I've often used the simile that the human body evolving from a single atom would be akin to throwing into the air the pieces of 10 disassembled aircraft carriers and have them land fully assembled and that wouldn't even begin to address the complexities of DNA and how each strand contains more information than 100 different sets of encyclopedias. That's the ONLY thing that keeps me believing in God.

But I cannot square a loving God with the level of suffering in this world. So there is a God but He's totally dis-attached from the suffering in this world. That equals a deist God.
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