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IMO, it always seems that religious people (not all, but a large majority)are so intolerant of agnostics/atheists; but agnostics/atheists are not intolerant of religious people because they understand that different people have different beliefs and respect people for that, but religious people will try and force their holier than thou beliefs down your throat? anyone else come across this? this is what in part turned me off of religion amongst other things. and us non-believers do not worry about "being saved" because we do not believe in it. i also dont know why so many believers feel the need to save nonbelievers. its like trying to give someone a liver transplant who doesnt need it.
I know there is a thread "why are atheist negative people". So I wanted to start a thread looking at it from a different stand point.
Don't you think that as a Christian it is more positive to look at an atheist differently? Some atheist will turn to christ, and as christians, we are to help guide the lost if they are open to listening. If you look at "all atheist" as negative people, then how are we supposed to have hope in their salvation with christ? They need the guidance of christians to help them along the way. I noticed the other thread getting alot of attention and it bothered me to think that people generalize like that. Who are we as christians to give up on the lost? Is that what christ wants from us. I think he wants us to spread the word of the bible and not look at non-believers as negative people but as people who just don't know the word of god. What are your thoughts?
Well, let's just consider your Subject line question:
"Why do some Christians look at Atheists as negative people"
First off, I don't consider ALL persons who claim atheism as their belief to be necessarily a negative person. (I mean look at June, probably one of the more positive people here of anybody, including at times me). I believe the fault first lies with the historical record of apostate Christianity. Take for example Europe. This is where I live. Most of Europe use to be under the iron fisted rule of both Catholic and Protestant churches here. Christendom had their shot years ago at showing the world how true Christianity should work when they ran everything. But how did they run things ??? Did they run things the way Jesus taught his original followers ??? How did they set a fine Christian example during the "Middle Ages" or "Dark Ages" as we call them ??? What fine example did they show the Heathens they encountered across our globe on their Christian European quest for world dominance during the colonialist era ??? What about the beginning of the 20th century when Christendom still held a powerful influence over what happened in Europe ??? What did World Wars I & II accomplish as far as the Christian cause ??? Did more people become believers as a result ???
Unfortunately the answer to all those questions is in the negative. The result is that almost all of Europe is run by Secularists and religion has only a slight nostalgic role in people's lives here today.
Now, to be fair, let's look at the posts by most of the Atheists on this forum, that is those who really have no belief in ANY type of religion of any kind, not just Christianity.
Most of the threads that I see started by these individuals are usually looking for flaws in anyone's belief system. Most have a condescending tone with sarcasm. I understand their arguement and agree with many things they say about much of the "Kool-Aid" mythology out there. But rather than opening up threads to trash and tear down Christianity or another religion, perhaps just for a change they could open up threads explaining how their version of Secular Philosophy (since this C.D.F. allows for Philosophy to be discussed as well) is going to benefit mankind over anything religious. What I've noticed is that when they tear down and destroy, they never replace it with anything better to offer. Even if they always start the thread out in an appologetic opening of, "I'm not wanting to offend, but I've always wondered about this" and then along with their buddies of like belief, they proceed to tear up, spit out and destroy every response to their so-called innocent question.
Perhaps it would be beneficial for atheists to just for once tell us how the Secular World is better equipped to bring about "true peace and security" to our planet. How the Secular World is better equipped to reverse global environmental ECO-RUIN in our lifetime. How will the Secular World solve all the social issues and political unrest that apparently is getting worse every day ??? How will the Secular World reverse starvation, hunger, housing shortages, escalating price increase for the basics and bring about a better solution to the financial world of kaos we find ourselves in today ??? How exactly is an organization like the secular-utopian United Nations going to accomplish this ???
Perhaps it would be beneficial for atheists to just for once tell us how the Secular World is better equipped to bring about "true peace and security" to our planet. How the Secular World is better equipped to reverse global environmental ECO-RUIN in our lifetime. How will the Secular World solve all the social issues and political unrest that apparently is getting worse every day ??? How will the Secular World reverse starvation, hunger, housing shortages, escalating price increase for the basics and bring about a better solution to the financial world of kaos we find ourselves in today ??? How exactly is an organization like the secular-utopian United Nations going to accomplish this ???
Just my thoughts on the subject
Well, considering the fact that Constitutionally, many countries involved with the United Nations, including the United States, operate under no particular claim of religious preference (secular) than I would say that they have done far more than their share of trying to make the world a better place. Using the U.S. as an example, only because I live here and am familiar with it more than any other place, we dole out the largest amount of government-funded charity in the world. Now, I think it would be ignorant to say that we as a country only do this because the country is in large part Christian. Rather, I think we would be more inclined to say that regardless of the religious affiliation of any particular country, the U.S. included right now, we are not relieving victims of the tsunami that hit Indonesia, India, Thailand and other places simply for religious reasons. Furthermore, we do not deliver millions of tons of food aide to destitute countries around the world for religious reasons. Religious organizations do indeed do some of that but the U.S. does not put a banner of religion into every place it goes to help out. If it promotes anything where it goes, it would be democracy (or at least that's what our "Dear Leader" calls it).
Next, in regards to the eco-crisis, I think you will find that there is more resistance, at least in America, amongst the Christian community in regards to helping the environment than you will find from the secular community. In fact, almost every Atheist/Agnostic/Secularist I know is concerned about the environment. I cannot honestly say the same thing about the Christian community. In fact, there are a large number of followers of the Christian faith who feel that it's their duty to use every natural resource available just to hasten the second coming of Christ!
I would also like to say that just because someone does something charitable does not mean they must attach a religious affiliation to it. That would, in essence, make it secular. I worked with plenty of people in the military who regardless of religious faith volunteered their time to go down and help clean up Katrina as part of a one month "Good Samaritan" tour of duty. The people I know weren't going and saying "It's the Christian thing to do" or "It's the Jewish thing to do" or "It's the Hindu way of life". They were simply going to help and I would call that quite secular in nature.
Finally, although many charities do operate under an initial motive of Christianity, this does not mean that every charitable organization is religious based. I would almost be willing to bet that non-denominational (read: Secular) outnumber Christian charity organizations. That's not to say that there aren't a vast number of Christian charities, because there are, but that's just saying that if you want to talk about "labels" of what is secular as opposed to Christian, I think you will find that the majority exclude religion from their motive of action.
Thus, I think what you are failing to understand is that secular does not mean we are asking to change the names of things like "The Christian Children's Fund" to "The Secular Children's Fund" because that would put an implicit name on the reasoning behind it which I don't happen to agree with. Ultimately, if you take an organization like Orbis (one of my favorite charities) and donate to them, you are not donating to a particular religious cause or movement in order to benefit society. You are simply donating to a good organization to benefit society. That does not mean that we should call it the "Secular ORBIS Charity".
Ultimately, just because it does not have the name "Secular" written in front of it like every single Christian organization does, does not mean that it is not secular in nature.
I believe its because of a basic lack of understanding of what an atheist is. There are all sorts of assumptions made when you make the announcement that you are an atheist, like that you therefore have no morals because all morality in the mind of a christian flows from religion.
Well, considering the fact that Constitutionally, many countries involved with the United Nations, including the United States, operate under no particular claim of religious preference (secular) than I would say that they have done far more than their share of trying to make the world a better place. Using the U.S. as an example, only because I live here and am familiar with it more than any other place, we dole out the largest amount of government-funded charity in the world. Now, I think it would be ignorant to say that we as a country only do this because the country is in large part Christian. Rather, I think we would be more inclined to say that regardless of the religious affiliation of any particular country, the U.S. included right now, we are not relieving victims of the tsunami that hit Indonesia, India, Thailand and other places simply for religious reasons. Furthermore, we do not deliver millions of tons of food aide to destitute countries around the world for religious reasons. Religious organizations do indeed do some of that but the U.S. does not put a banner of religion into every place it goes to help out. If it promotes anything where it goes, it would be democracy (or at least that's what our "Dear Leader" calls it).
Next, in regards to the eco-crisis, I think you will find that there is more resistance, at least in America, amongst the Christian community in regards to helping the environment than you will find from the secular community. In fact, almost every Atheist/Agnostic/Secularist I know is concerned about the environment. I cannot honestly say the same thing about the Christian community. In fact, there are a large number of followers of the Christian faith who feel that it's their duty to use every natural resource available just to hasten the second coming of Christ!
I would also like to say that just because someone does something charitable does not mean they must attach a religious affiliation to it. That would, in essence, make it secular. I worked with plenty of people in the military who regardless of religious faith volunteered their time to go down and help clean up Katrina as part of a one month "Good Samaritan" tour of duty. The people I know weren't going and saying "It's the Christian thing to do" or "It's the Jewish thing to do" or "It's the Hindu way of life". They were simply going to help and I would call that quite secular in nature.
Finally, although many charities do operate under an initial motive of Christianity, this does not mean that every charitable organization is religious based. I would almost be willing to bet that non-denominational (read: Secular) outnumber Christian charity organizations. That's not to say that there aren't a vast number of Christian charities, because there are, but that's just saying that if you want to talk about "labels" of what is secular as opposed to Christian, I think you will find that the majority exclude religion from their motive of action.
Thus, I think what you are failing to understand is that secular does not mean we are asking to change the names of things like "The Christian Children's Fund" to "The Secular Children's Fund" because that would put an implicit name on the reasoning behind it which I don't happen to agree with. Ultimately, if you take an organization like Orbis (one of my favorite charities) and donate to them, you are not donating to a particular religious cause or movement in order to benefit society. You are simply donating to a good organization to benefit society. That does not mean that we should call it the "Secular ORBIS Charity".
Ultimately, just because it does not have the name "Secular" written in front of it like every single Christian organization does, does not mean that it is not secular in nature.
Maybe you should go back and read it again. You have the ability to read anyone's history of posts. I never sugar coat things when it comes to exposing the hypocracy of those claiming to be Christian.
You're wanting to debate words, expressions and meanings of terminology. Just open a thread and tell us your TRUTH! Instead of the both of you tearing at each other's throats all the time, what is there about atheism that will benefit mankind if they ALL believed your TRUTH of things ???
I believe its because of a basic lack of understanding of what an atheist is. There are all sorts of assumptions made when you make the announcement that you are an atheist, like that you therefore have no morals because all morality in the mind of a christian flows from religion.
Wrong . . .all morality as a concept flows from the existence of a purpose for human life (which requires a Creator) and the examples provided and taught by Jesus (religion has nothing to do with it).
Wrong . . .all morality as a concept flows from the existence of a purpose for human life (which requires a Creator) and the examples provided and taught by Jesus (religion has nothing to do with it).
You are wrong. Someone doesn't need the belief in a divine creator to have purpose in their life. Purpose isn't something objective that should be dictated to everyone. Purpose is subjective because it's merely the way someone strives for fulfillment and striving for fulfillment doesn't come from some divine pseudo mythical sky magician. Someone can gain fulfillment from any number of things even it's just eating as many corn dogs as they can. Also, much as believers are unwilling to believe it, morality isn't contingent on the belief in some undetectable essence that permeates the universe. Morality is a product of evolution and the moral zeitgeist. Evolution made someone's moral sense( feeling good when they do something good and feeling bad when they do something bad.) The other is the moral zeitgeist which are the moral norms of the culture. For example, the United States used to consider slavery a moral act, but now it is considered despicable and immoral.
You are wrong. Someone doesn't need the belief in a divine creator to have purpose in their life. Purpose isn't something objective that should be dictated to everyone. Purpose is subjective because it's merely the way someone strives for fulfillment and striving for fulfillment doesn't come from some divine pseudo mythical sky magician.
Well . . . I agree about the silly pseudo-mythical sky magician, anyway. However . . . please show me the logic train that enables you to derive from a purposeless premise to a purposeful outcome. Purposeless accidents have no reason for existing in the first instance . . . so how can anything they do or do not do be purposeful . . . it is all nonsense. Any distinctions among nonsense are nonsense.
IMO, it always seems that religious people (not all, but a large majority)are so intolerant of agnostics/atheists; but agnostics/atheists are not intolerant of religious people because they understand that different people have different beliefs and respect people for that, but religious people will try and force their holier than thou beliefs down your throat? anyone else come across this? this is what in part turned me off of religion amongst other things. and us non-believers do not worry about "being saved" because we do not believe in it. i also dont know why so many believers feel the need to save nonbelievers. its like trying to give someone a liver transplant who doesnt need it.
IMO, many of us "religious" people seem intolerant, simply put, because to us this is a life or death situation.
In my experience, a lot of athiests/agnostics jeer, taunt and ridicule us Christians for our beliefs, yet it is not (and should not be by either view) ever tolerated by the them. It's a bit ridiculous and one sided on both sides of this issue! We mostly ALL have some type of moral code that we should live by on a daily basis... how about we all start here and now?
Lastly you asked why, "so many believers feel the need to save non-believers"? Of course, this is because the Holy Bible commands us to do so, as believers. If we did less, we would not be honoring God's word.
Put it this way.... if you went to sleep tonight.. and lets say you had a dream that was so vivid and real to you, that you believed it was (or even might be) prophetic.. and in it... you saw someone you know.. your mom, dad, child, neighbor, teacher.. whomever... was going to die in a horrible car crash and your dream foretold of that crash happening THAT DAY. Wouldn't you do everything in your power to let them know, plead with them to alter their day in some way, stay home, not drive, etc???? You had no PROOF that it would happen, but you BELIEVED it would, or MIGHT? Would it not seem INSANE to you for someone else to tell you not to believe in your dream and quit worrying and BOTHERING people with your SILLY beliefs? How could you NOT tell them, on the slight chance that it MAY be true?
THAT my dear, is the situation many of us Christians are put in on a daily basis with non-believers. I say shame on many of us for not doing MORE to try and save people through the Living Word. So if you still feel we're ridiculous and pushy while trying to save others souls, you are very entitled to feel that way, and I will still try my best to "save" people.
Wrong . . .all morality as a concept flows from the existence of a purpose for human life (which requires a Creator) and the examples provided and taught by Jesus (religion has nothing to do with it).
How do you know that is where morality comes from? My morality comes from no such place. Just because that is what you think doesnt make it true. My morality comes from the understanding that if I do good things and treat people well I can for the most part expect that from others.
I think that christians see atheists and agnostics negatively because we owe no loyalty to God. Since we have no loyalty to him or his arbitrary rules they somehow think that we are running around killing and having orgies with animals. They feel that if there is no creator bossing us around that we cannot behave in a civilized manner. Yet they forget that these universal rules of morality predate religion.
To the OP: Most Atheists would rather you just leave them alone, after all a lot of us did come from Christian households, and we have already made our minds up about it.
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The result is that almost all of Europe is run by Secularists and religion has only a slight nostalgic role in people's lives here today. 
