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Old 10-16-2011, 03:44 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,156,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
The JW's have since changed their position on getting an education. I think they realized encouraging people to skip college wasn't going to get them more members.

The idea that all or most JW's are uneducated is a myth. Most of the JW's I know have a college education. One of my best friends has an MA in psychology and she's a JW. Sure there are some without college education, but there are also a lot of people (who aren't JW) that don't have a college education. I haven't finished mine, and I'm not JW.

It's kind of a weak argument now. It was a stronger argument when the JW's actually did discourage people from going to school.

This whole article, from the Watchtower site, encourages people to stay in school:

Should I Quit School? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

Yes, I see your point - but the JWs are known for quickly reversing an earlier opinion, when they have no other choice. So a modern article encouraging a college education does not remove the fact that they previously discouraged it, and that statistically - JWs did not have a high level of education - and if their literature is a reflection on their educational level, they STILL do not.

I wouldn't agree that it's a weak argument. Sorry....it's not as much of a myth as you say. The whole point of a higher education is to get one - JW doctrine is still stuck in the 1700s.
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:49 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,156,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
I am in college now! BTW - college guarantees what? Does it impart wisdom?
Strange - but you have not refuted anything I said. Why? If I am wrong, then straighten me out!
Mercy?
Yes! We all need it - don't we?


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Wilson
I'm sorry - I just don't believe that you're in college....
You claim to be in college, and then immediately cast aspersions on it. If college is as powerless as you make it out to be in your 2nd and 3rd sentences - why are you even bothering?

By the way - volunteering to work in a printing press doesn't count as college. Just making sure you understand what college is NOT.

AS for refutations - I've said this several times: this thread is not the proper place for it. WE are already off topic, as it is. The thread is about your thoughts on proselytizing, not an example of proselytizing....
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Old 10-16-2011, 04:30 PM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,246,712 times
Reputation: 12496
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
Yes, I see your point - but the JWs are known for quickly reversing an earlier opinion, when they have no other choice. So a modern article encouraging a college education does not remove the fact that they previously discouraged it, and that statistically - JWs did not have a high level of education - and if their literature is a reflection on their educational level, they STILL do not.

I wouldn't agree that it's a weak argument. Sorry....it's not as much of a myth as you say. The whole point of a higher education is to get one - JW doctrine is still stuck in the 1700s.
I know and I never denied they held that opinion. But now it's an outdated argument because it's no longer true. It's kind of like hating Christianity on the basis that it's racist. Yes, some Christians used the Bible to support anti-miscegenation laws before, but most Christians you meet now aren't racist and many date/marry interracially.

If you have beef with JW's, I understand. But if you're going to have beef with them, at least have it based on something that is true, now.
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Old 10-16-2011, 04:45 PM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,246,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
I'm sorry - I just don't believe that you're in college....
You claim to be in college, and then immediately cast aspersions on it. If college is as powerless as you make it out to be in your 2nd and 3rd sentences - why are you even bothering?

By the way - volunteering to work in a printing press doesn't count as college. Just making sure you understand what college is NOT.

AS for refutations - I've said this several times: this thread is not the proper place for it. WE are already off topic, as it is. The thread is about your thoughts on proselytizing, not an example of proselytizing....
It's not impossible for a JW to go to college. I know a lot of JW's that went to or are in college.

That said, the printing press wilsoncole worked for is probably Bethel. Not to say that's good or bad. On one hand, it's a printing press to distribute JW pamphlets and Bibles--you know, the things they hand you when they proselytize. On the other hand, I have met some really smart people coming out of Bethel. I met an incredible deaf-blind specialist who was fluent in sign language and braille despite being hearing-sighted himself--something I've never come across before. He was in charge of printing the Braille pamphlets at Bethel and was on the committee for how to give the best interpretation possible for the ASL videos.

Working for Bethel is pretty much right next to the dictionary definition of proselytizing, lol.
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Old 10-16-2011, 05:17 PM
 
646 posts, read 530,171 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
I'm sorry - I just don't believe that you're in college....
Don't care if you don't. If you would disbelieve the words of Jesus Christ, who in the world am I?
Quote:
You claim to be in college, and then immediately cast aspersions on it. If college is as powerless as you make it out to be in your 2nd and 3rd sentences - why are you even bothering?
I asked a question - Does college impart wisdom?
Corrupt leaders are not wise. With all these millions of people graduating every year, why is the corruption so deeply ingrained in the ranks of the world's leaders? Why are they using their best technical brains in weapons technology? Show me where their brand of wisdom leads!
Quote:
By the way - volunteering to work in a printing press doesn't count as college. Just making sure you understand what college is NOT.
Not worth a comment.
Quote:
AS for refutations - I've said this several times: this thread is not the proper place for it. WE are already off topic, as it is. The thread is about your thoughts on proselytizing, not an example of proselytizing....
JWs are the best known proselytizers. When they are attacked, I will respond as long as I see it.
You just don't have any refutation. If you really do, put it in another thread. I will keep you busy.


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Wilson
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:04 AM
 
646 posts, read 530,171 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
It's not impossible for a JW to go to college. I know a lot of JW's that went to or are in college.

That said, the printing press wilsoncole worked for is probably Bethel. Not to say that's good or bad. On one hand, it's a printing press to distribute JW pamphlets and Bibles--you know, the things they hand you when they proselytize. On the other hand, I have met some really smart people coming out of Bethel. I met an incredible deaf-blind specialist who was fluent in sign language and braille despite being hearing-sighted himself--something I've never come across before. He was in charge of printing the Braille pamphlets at Bethel and was on the committee for how to give the best interpretation possible for the ASL videos.

Working for Bethel is pretty much right next to the dictionary definition of proselytizing, lol.
“I thoroughly believe in a university education for men and women, but I believe a knowledge of the Bible without a college course is more valuable than a college course without the Bible.” (American educator William Lyon Phelps)
.
“The study of the Bible is a post-graduate course in the richest library of human experience.”(Herbert Hoover)
.
“I cannot too greatly emphasize the importance and value of Bible study—more important than ever before in these days of uncertainties, when men and women are apt to decide questions from the standpoint of expediency rather than upon the eternal principles laid down by God Himself.” (John Wanamaker)
.
“If you were to take the sum total of all the authoritative articles ever written by the most qualified of psychologists and psychiatrists on the subject of mental hygiene—if you were to combine them and refine them and cleave out the excess verbiage—if you were to take the whole of the meat and none of the parsley, and if you were to have these unadulterated bits of pure scientific knowledge concisely expressed by the most capable of living poets, you would have an awkward and incomplete summation of the Sermon on the Mount.” (A Few Buttons Missing: the Case Book of a Psychiatrist, James Tucker Fisher)
.
It is my understanding that you, Nimpy, and other detractors, claim the Society has discouraged the taking in of education in the past.
I would like you to point to the material, in our publications, that do so.
If you can't, then you are instrumental in spreading lies.
You see, I can produce material from the past that says otherwise.

How about it?

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>(^)<


Wilson
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,081,216 times
Reputation: 3717
The degree of wisdom an individual acquires in their lives is NOT a function of which college they choose to attend, cram for the exams, and achieve some passing letter grade. Rather, the truly wise individual attends the courses he or she is potentially interested in, reads the concentrated knowledge the prof is supposed to assemble and present, and then comes to their own well-thought-out conclusions about the course content and it's possible implications.

It's what you then do with the information presented to you that is of vital importance. As well, you are free to evaluate the school's or professor's credentials or teaching skills, including their ability to communicate complex ideas to a room full of essentially disinterested kids who came to the "U" simply to avoid having to go work (yuk!) for a living.

This is especially effective when you advance to the grad school level where you are very much more on your own and become completely responsible for designing and implementing original research, which taxes the mind and logical thought processes so many students have big troubles achieving. Those all-important critical thinking skills come into play.

Proselytizing generally side-steps these processes, and constitutes a simple rote-chanting kind of philosophical parroting of some established set of talking points. Rarely do the proselytizers have any independent and commonsense contributions to add, but rather they just rattle on, trying to spew enough tripe onto the situation to overwhelm the poor listener.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,081,216 times
Reputation: 3717
The degree of wisdom an individual acquires in their lives is NOT a function of which college they choose to attend, cram for the exams, and achieve some passing letter grade. Rather, the truly wise individual attends the courses he or she is potentially interested in, reads the concentrated knowledge the prof is supposed to assemble and present, and then comes to their own well-thought-out conclusions about the course content and it's possible implications.

It's what you then do with the information presented to you that is of vital importance. As well, you are free to evaluate the credentials or teaching skills, including their ability to communicate complex ideas to a room full of essentially disinterested kids who came to the "U" simply to avoid having to go work (yuk!) for a living.

These critical thinking and thought organization abilities are especially effective when you advance to the grad-school level, where you are very much more on your own and become completely responsible for designing and implementing original research. Of course, this taxes the unprepared mind and logical thought processes so many students have big troubles achieving. Those all-important critical thinking skills come into play.

Proselytizing generally side-steps these processes, and constitutes a simple rote-chanting kind of philosophical parroting of some established set of talking points. Rarely do the proselytizers have any independent and commonsense contributions to add, but rather they just rattle on, trying to spew enough tripe onto the situation to overwhelm the poor listener.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,445,661 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
The degree of wisdom an individual acquires in their lives is NOT a function of which college they choose to attend, cram for the exams, and achieve some passing letter grade. Rather, the truly wise individual attends the courses he or she is potentially interested in, reads the concentrated knowledge the prof is supposed to assemble and present, and then comes to their own well-thought-out conclusions about the course content and it's possible implications.

It's what you then do with the information presented to you that is of vital importance. As well, you are free to evaluate the school's or professor's credentials or teaching skills, including their ability to communicate complex ideas to a room full of essentially disinterested kids who came to the "U" simply to avoid having to go work (yuk!) for a living.

This is especially effective when you advance to the grad school level where you are very much more on your own and become completely responsible for designing and implementing original research, which taxes the mind and logical thought processes so many students have big troubles achieving. Those all-important critical thinking skills come into play.

Proselytizing generally side-steps these processes, and constitutes a simple rote-chanting kind of philosophical parroting of some established set of talking points. Rarely do the proselytizers have any independent and commonsense contributions to add, but rather they just rattle on, trying to spew enough tripe onto the situation to overwhelm the poor listener.
Worse than preaching.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:02 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,334 posts, read 10,414,675 times
Reputation: 6964
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
.....
JWs are the best known proselytizers. When they are attacked, .....


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Wilson
That WHY they are attacked. VERY FEW people want somebody knocking on their door trying to sell them some religion, even if that religion requires it of their members. You WILL be told in no uncertain terms that I am not interested and that you must leave my property immediately and never return.

(BTW, signature lines on CD are only for Moderators.)
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