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Old 10-09-2011, 09:33 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,246,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
Hmm - is that true? I've been told that they primarily focus on their own, during disasters: it's the reasoning behind a friend's abhorence of them. Do you have any links showing their assistance to non-JWs during disasters?
Links--no. Personal experience--yes. I guess it's kind of hard to measure but I was studying with the JW's when Haiti happened, as well as many other more local disasters and they were always on the ball with helping everyone.

You're definitely right they stick to their own in general and that I can't stand.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:39 PM
 
646 posts, read 530,171 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Well, we all know the joke about the native asking if he'd go to hell if he'd never heard of Jesus but was a good person his whole life. The missionary replied "Of course you'd go to heaven! Jesus won't hold it against you if you'd never heard of him."

To which the native said "Then why did you tell me?"

Moral of the story is, if what a christian believes is true, they're condemning people to hell simply by telling them about their Jesus. If their beliefs are wrong, there's no point in telling people about them. So why bother in either case?

Proselytizing is annoying, and if anyone shows up at my door or tries to preach to me at work or on the street, they're going to get it with both barrels.
Do you mean you're going to kill them?


Wilson.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:57 PM
 
646 posts, read 530,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
Though no one has more faith than I do, I do tire of others' Proselytizing.
The true journey of the soul is best shared by simply being an example. Working to draft believers to one's way of belief is so lame.
Jesus was a fisher of men, and He had that Spirit that drew folks to Him.
If sincere believers will just live it, and be sincere, honest, etc....they, too will influence folks and not even know it, often.
"Jesus was a fisher of men..."
What do you think that means? Evangelizing!
Who did Jesus preach to? Jews!
By getting involved in politics, idolatry and excessive commercialism, they had messed up their relationship with their God.
He had to dump them because they first dumped Him.
Now the call goes out to people of all nations.
Who on earth can stop it? When ordered to stop by the authorities, Peter answered: "We MUST obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29)
.
Annoyed? Maybe!
But no one can speak for all people.
Some people want to hear the Good News. Others hear with annoyance.
But the God-given freedom to listen MUST remain intact.
Politicians do it with no complaints. They call it campaigning.
Stopping one group is the first step to stopping all - religious or otherwise.



(\__/)
( . )
>(^)<


Wilson
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:08 PM
 
646 posts, read 530,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Personally, I'd love it if they weren't allowed to go onto private property unless invited.
Freedom to do so is guaranteed by the Constitution and upheld by the Supreme Court.
Maybe you want them to work for some and not for others?

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Wilson
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:24 PM
 
646 posts, read 530,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
My view on it is this......

I think it's ok for someone who is religious to come up to me and offer to do a Bible study or tell me about their religion........ONCE. After that, they should leave me alone. They have offered, they have made me aware that they are out there, if I want to hear more, I will seek them out. If not, leave me alone.



That's funny, when someone asks me if I know Jesus I say " well yes I do, I ran into him the other day in line at the supermarket and we had a delightful conversation"

That usualy shuts'em up, I mean really, how can they respond to that?
This way:
Did he tell you what he is doing now? He is getting ready to rid the world of its horrible problems. How? By using something you, yourself may have prayed for at some time or another...etc, etc.

.
People often pray for someone to come and teach them what they need to know about God. Those prayers are usually answered by - evangelizers - God's own footmen.
You will only be rid of them when their work is done.


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Wilson
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:49 PM
 
646 posts, read 530,171 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Which then makes me wonder why they would so heartlessly proselytize to anyone. In essence, by their very own beliefs, telling someone about Jesus will absolutely condemn millions of people to hell, who would have gone to heaven had they never heard the "message".

On the other hand, if those ignorant folks would NOT go to heaven simply for not hearing about Jesus, what kind of obscenely sadistic god would that be? The point is, even if we play by the standards of religion, and assume for the sake of this particular argument that a god exists, either way this plays out proves that someone in the mix is an arsehole. Either the followers are doing the wrong thing by preaching, or the god they support is a vicious bastard.
No heaven; no hell - just a very long sleep. "For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything." (Ecc. 9:5,10)
Some people engage in a lot of foolish talk!
Some time ago, I was on night patrol, assigned to keep people from falling into the river due to the docks being under repair.
Sometime during the night, I saw a sailor walking toward his ship, but he was going the wrong way, heading straight for serious hurt. I was too far away to restrain him.
I tried to warn him, yelled at him, clapped my hands, waved a flashlight, jumped up and down and did just about everything I could to spare him some injuries.
He looked at me and just kept right on walking. I decided to let him go whichever way he wanted. I did not see it happen, but he went HIS way - right into the river. He could have been killed by those jagged pilings. I saw him when he got out, and then he was mad at me and tried to beat me up. I had to arrest him and lock him up. His ship left without him.
.
Question:
Why did it happen?
You really think I shouldn't have tried? Minded my own business?
Did I know which way to go? YES!

That, Sir, is the way of the evangelist.
They have got to try.
You want to beat them up?


(\__/)
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>(^)<


Wilson
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:55 PM
 
646 posts, read 530,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
As far as we know - it's only what some writer tells us about what Jesus said. Don't think for a minute that some people's personal agendas and motivations wouldn't manifest themselves through some creative writing.

Take Thucidydes for example - in his History he frequently creates speeches for various occasions, putting words in the mouths of the people he is writing about. Nobody was sitting around scribbling down the exact words of each orator, general and statesmen - so he had to approximate what HE (Thucidydes) thought was important. This has the unfortunate consequence of resulting in every single character sounding the exact same - because Thucidydes is writing their speeches without even trying to change the style to match each person. His impression of Perecles is way off the mark!

It's quite possible that through many years of oral tradition, fading memories, and theological agendas - that the words of Jesus have been given to us in a very garbled form. Ever notice how differently the Jesus of the Gospel of Mark speaks from the Jesus of the Gospel of John? They are worlds apart in both speech, content and theological significance!

Anyways - this has been common knowledge among Biblical scholars for many hundreds of years now. These are the same scholars that are producing the translations you read, before you start claming that they are not truly faithful christians, and must be mistaken: the evidence is there plainly for all to read - IF they take the time to do it.

Personally, I prefer the Jesus of the Gospel of Mark.
How about everyone else? Which Jesus do YOU like?
This point of view should be tested.
Would you mind relating those great differences?


(\__/)
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>(^)<


Wilson
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:55 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,270,775 times
Reputation: 8265
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
Freedom to do so is guaranteed by the Constitution and upheld by the Supreme Court.
Maybe you want them to work for some and not for others?

(\__/)
( . )
>(^)<


Wilson
The constitution says that you are allowed to trespass on my property, I think not.

But for those foolish enough to ignore the sign beside the front door (NO SOLICITATION OF ANY KIND), place there primarily for the politicals, will have it explained to them immediately and bluntly.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:08 PM
 
646 posts, read 530,171 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Preying on the disabled, especially the newly blind and the newly deaf (who are adjusting and therefore very emotionally vulnerable) is a sure way to get better results.
I have read your posts for sometime now and it seems that you are always ready to pounce whenever JWs are mentioned.
This time I have to say something:
"Preying" in the disabled? Is that what you really meant to say?
In what way do they profit from their work, materially?
Without being asked, we pay for the materials we give away to those people. Since it costs US to engage in this work, how are we "preying" on anyone?


(\__/)
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Wilson
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:30 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,156,403 times
Reputation: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
No heaven; no hell - just a very long sleep. "For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything." (Ecc. 9:5,10)
Some people engage in a lot of foolish talk!
Some time ago, I was on night patrol, assigned to keep people from falling into the river due to the docks being under repair.
Sometime during the night, I saw a sailor walking toward his ship, but he was going the wrong way, heading straight for serious hurt. I was too far away to restrain him.
I tried to warn him, yelled at him, clapped my hands, waved a flashlight, jumped up and down and did just about everything I could to spare him some injuries.
He looked at me and just kept right on walking. I decided to let him go whichever way he wanted. I did not see it happen, but he went HIS way - right into the river. He could have been killed by those jagged pilings. I saw him when he got out, and then he was mad at me and tried to beat me up. I had to arrest him and lock him up. His ship left without him.
.
Question:
Why did it happen?
You really think I shouldn't have tried? Minded my own business?
Did I know which way to go? YES!

That, Sir, is the way of the evangelist.
They have got to try.
You want to beat them up?


(\__/)
( . )
>(^)<

Wilson
He wanted to beat you up? Now that's a shock..... did you phrase your warning about the dock in the form of a proverb hee hee! Or shove it down his throat how you were right, he was wrong, and that's what he gets? Hmm.... Too many years of being a member of an exclusive "organization" seems to have given you juuuuuust the right amount of arrogance - it drips off of you like sweat.
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