U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-12-2011, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,612,105 times
Reputation: 7382

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by kla2 View Post

"the question is can we theists put forth proof or evidence that would be acceptable to an Atheist. I personally doubt we could put up measurable replicable proof as God is not part of the physical realm and not measurable by physical means."

While the whole of 'religious' history as we know it has been unable to offer such proof, and we are conditioned to think as much, it may simply be that all sides of the God question and history itself have it wrong! For what religion, science, atheist or agnostic thought impossible has now happened, but not through any existing, known religious source or tradition.

The first wholly new interpretation for two thousand years of the moral teachings of Christ is spreading on the web. Radically different from anything else we know of from history, this new moral teaching is predicated upon a precise and predefined experience, a direct individual intervention into the natural world by omnipotent power to confirm divine will, command and covenant, "correcting human nature by a change in natural law, altering biology, consciousness and human ethical perception beyond all natural evolutionary boundaries." Like it of no, a new religious claim testable by faith, meeting all Enlightenment, evidential criteria now exists. Nothing short of a religious revolution appears to be getting under way. I'm testing the teaching now myself. More info at The Final Freedoms*|*Soulgineering
In Islam we Believe theMessage of the Bible has long been lost and misinterpreted. Some truth remaining in it but the infuence of man through interpretations and translations has messed it up. which is why the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad(PBUH) as the final chance to not mess it up again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-12-2011, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,805,992 times
Reputation: 12226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
While I am at best agnostic, and some would call me an atheist, I disagree with this statement.

Dark matter has been proven to exist, yet it is non-physical. In fact, that is almost the definition of dark matter, and that is almost all we know about it.

Although, there may be an argument about what qualifies for "physical".
Dark matter is definitely not god....

Actually scientists describe dark matter as particles...particles are matter...matter IS physical.
The most common view is that dark matter is not baryonic at all, but that it is made up of other, more exotic particles like axions or WIMPS (Weakly Interacting Massive Particles).
Dark Energy, Dark Matter - NASA Science
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2011, 07:18 PM
 
2,665 posts, read 2,115,419 times
Reputation: 1471
Seems nobody is particularly interested in my digital reality theory. Meh.

Could someone explain what (swt) means?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2011, 07:35 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,589,605 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Dark matter is definitely not god....

Actually scientists describe dark matter as particles...particles are matter...matter IS physical.
The most common view is that dark matter is not baryonic at all, but that it is made up of other, more exotic particles like axions or WIMPS (Weakly Interacting Massive Particles).
Dark Energy, Dark Matter - NASA Science
Only if you change the definition of matter to include particles, or anything else we might find.

Which to me is a real question. We have the set of things we refer to as matter. Then we find something that does not fall within that set of things. Most people now simply add to the definition of matter to include those new things. But I think you should instead properly admit those things are not matter, they are things that are immaterial.

Otherwise, materialism is a empty, hollow concept. I doesn't really stand for anything.

We don't really know what Dark Matter is, except we know it interacts with gravity. It may or may not be made of particles. It's probably made of "something", and that something will surely be described as a material thing, even if we have to change the definition of materialism to include it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2011, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,250,632 times
Reputation: 3200
Boxcar, the arguments expressed in your post are why I describe myself as a physicalist or a naturalist, not a materialist. Dark matter, particles, etc., are not matter, but they are physical, naturalistic properties.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2011, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,612,105 times
Reputation: 7382
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss View Post
Seems nobody is particularly interested in my digital reality theory. Meh.

Could someone explain what (swt) means?
It is a title of respect we put after God(swt), Allaah(swt) Those of us who are too lazy to write it all out "Subhannah Wa T'ala" use the abbreviation SWT in English it means roughly "Praise to the one true God, who has no equals, partners nor progeny"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2011, 08:26 PM
 
2,665 posts, read 2,115,419 times
Reputation: 1471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It is a title of respect we put after God(swt), Allaah(swt) Those of us who are too lazy to write it all out "Subhannah Wa T'ala" use the abbreviation SWT in English it means roughly "Praise to the one true God, who has no equals, partners nor progeny"
Thanks for the explanation. That said, I think you're in for quite the surprise when the true nature of the bigger reality is revealed to you. "god", if you simply must use the term, is us. And we are it. All of us, regardless of whatever silly human belief system we subscribe to. Or don't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2011, 08:33 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,589,605 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by northstar22 View Post
Boxcar, the arguments expressed in your post are why I describe myself as a physicalist or a naturalist, not a materialist. Dark matter, particles, etc., are not matter, but they are physical, naturalistic properties.
I think that's a pretty fair point.

Materialism used to mean something. It meant one believed that the only things that existed were made out of atoms.

Then it slipped into meaning "one who believes everything is made out of atoms, and just a few other things."

Now it means "one who believes everything is made of atoms, except there's some other stuff we know of that's made of something else, and then of course there are those things that are made of stuff we know nothing about - and that's it! (except all the stuff we shall someday discover that fits into none of those categories.)

The distinction between the material and immaterial world are blurred, and the term materialism no longer conveys anything important.

But physicalism may have some merit to it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2011, 09:14 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,064 posts, read 4,344,685 times
Reputation: 1178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It is a title of respect we put after God(swt), Allaah(swt) Those of us who are too lazy to write it all out "Subhannah Wa T'ala" use the abbreviation SWT in English it means roughly "Praise to the one true God, who has no equals, partners nor progeny"
How could Allah of Abraham possibly know about the non-existence of things outside of it's perception... Prince Siddhartha (the achiever) taught about this, why did you abandon him for Merchant Muhammad (the beloved)? How can Allah ever know it doesn't have superiors? You should read into some of the philosophies as to why omniscience is impossible and all thinking things are Agnostic

If God has no partners... What are the prophets and angels?

If God has no progeny, what is this universe?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2011, 09:27 PM
 
912 posts, read 699,758 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by northstar22 View Post
Your brain doesn't completely stop functioning until up to one hour after you die. I don't mean fall under the ice, I mean become dead (no heartbeat, no breathing, body at room temperature). NDEs are possible up until the time when your brain completely stops functioning, which obviously didn't happen in your friend's case. I know he saw something, but it was a trauma-induced hallucination produced by the brain. That's what near-death experiences are, not supernatural events.

This site talks about NDEs and how they are caused by naturalistic factors:
Debunking Christianity: The Essential Nuttiness of Near-Death Experiences as Evidence for the Supernatural

There is no evidence for the existence of the supernatural. Zero.

This info should clear things up...

This interesting video shows you how to improve your chances of surviving a fall through thin ice into freezing water.

In summary, the first thing you do is concentrate on staying afloat and controlling your breathing, which will become very rapid due to cold shock. Once you have that under control, which may take a minute you have 2-5 minutes to climb out before you get too weak to save yourself. If you can't get out? You'll eventually go unconscious and drown. Rest with your arms out flat on the ice. With luck, they will freeze in place, keeping your head above water, maximizing the time for rescuers to help you. If you do everything right, you could survive for an hour or two before dying of hypothermia.


So there you have it....2-5minutes...a person can't go down to the bottom of a frozen lake ...have a near death experience...enjoying the scenery and then decide to come back concious see the hole 80 ft up and go for it....no way


Anyway...just thinking, everything related to life and creation is what?..
an evolving surviving changing process...correct....check

If there was no "bridge" from the physical reality to what is claimed to be a
continued existence...the argument would have much more momentum..

The idea in continuance would be consistent with all the chief factors in life including the evolution of the universe itself where a "bridge" is used which would of course be subject to both realities....change would be a process...no doubt about it in everything

Even if disturbance in the brain could or has been shown to provoke a near death experience.....so what? seriously, how can that not be so ...

gathering this potential and saying...ohh that explains everything makes no sense .

......if it wasn't so, the argument would certainly jump on the question as to why not?....where is the connection to the self infinity potential, emphasizing the brain is absolutely not in the least subject to any participation what so ever...

without question then, the probing in the brain demonstrates a conforming reality in this necessary bridging or progression "toward the self infinite"

obviously with the story and above factual detail of going into ice water shows , theres quite a bit that is left without explanation...don't forget the guy went in as I relayed and was by himself...someone saw and had to
get to him....anyway I thought I'd get back with this.

Last edited by Blue Hue; 10-12-2011 at 09:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top