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Old 10-14-2011, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,389,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northstar22 View Post
I would honestly want to live on this earth forever. I don't believe in any sort of afterlife or god, and while I don't fear becoming nonexistent, I don't welcome it either. I want immortality. Maybe cryonics might be worth looking into.
I just think immortality would take the value out of life to begin with..... wouldn't you agree?
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
I just think immortality would take the value out of life to begin with..... wouldn't you agree?
Not necessarily. An afterlife would do just that, but immortality on earth is just more of a good thing. Why do we NEED death? Life is absolutely good, and I can't imagine a scenario -- barring a vegetative state or horrific illness -- where death would be preferable.

I'd love to have an infinite life where I could experience all there is to experience, know all there is to know, love all there is to love. Death just puts an end to the amazing journey called life.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northstar22 View Post
True, and the fact that there is no afterlife makes this life all the more precious.
Whether or not there is an afterlife, death is guaranteed and life is fleeting, therefore precious.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:18 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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I don't want to come across as self-centered, but if consciousness ends with our own death, than isn't it basically the end of the Universe, the end of EVERYTHING? Assuming there is no reincarnation, no future life. In effect, if this was the case, the Universe would be contained within that small space between your ears, and would be everything YOU personally experience, the sum of YOUR life.

I believe we're part of something greater, so if the atheist humanists are right that would disturb me profoundly. Imagine, it's a sunny morning and you're driving to work. A big truck veers in front of you and you slam into it at 120 km/h. You lose consciousness and never wake up. That's the END, people, there's NOTHING after that, FOREVER! Doesn't that make you even a LITTLE uncomfortable (for those who say they are not bothered by it). I think it's cool if you truly do, I wish I could feel that way, but I'm trying to wrap my head around that kind of inner peace.

I don't think immortality/afterlife makes life any less valuable. I'm sure there are some things you actually can't do in the afterlife than you could do here. But then who knows, I've only been alive for 25 years, and sometimes I get a little bored of it...
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I don't want to come across as self-centered, but if consciousness ends with our own death, than isn't it basically the end of the Universe, the end of EVERYTHING? Assuming there is no reincarnation, no future life. In effect, if this was the case, the Universe would be contained within that small space between your ears, and would be everything YOU personally experience, the sum of YOUR life.

I believe we're part of something greater, so if the atheist humanists are right that would disturb me profoundly. Imagine, it's a sunny morning and you're driving to work. A big truck veers in front of you and you slam into it at 120 km/h. You lose consciousness and never wake up. That's the END, people, there's NOTHING after that, FOREVER! Doesn't that make you even a LITTLE uncomfortable (for those who say they are not bothered by it). I think it's cool if you truly do, I wish I could feel that way, but I'm trying to wrap my head around that kind of inner peace.
Interesting.

How is that my world survives the death of others?
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Bayou City
2,991 posts, read 4,489,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
If in everyday life, you are asked about continued existence after death by one of those people who would like to know everything but refuse to learn anything, the most appropriate and approximately correct answer is: ‘After your death you will be what you were before your birth.’ For this answer implies that it is preposterous to demand that a species of existence which had a beginning should not have an end; in addition, however, it contains a hint that there may be two kinds of existence and, correspondingly, two kinds of nothingness.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
Nihilism

I think what concerns most is that, retrospectively, "pre-life" nothingness at least contained a "potential" for being, whereas no one could ever be sure that post-life nothingness, prospectively, will contain the same potential. The "curse" of present existence, if you will, forever threatens to separate prior infinity from post infinity.

I think there is a kind of ontological refuge in nihilism that frankly no other perspective can provide. Recognizing that human existence has no ultimate meaning or purpose relieves one from the psychological burden of having to come to terms with the absence or loss of human existence. We could all go extinct tomorrow and it wouldn't make one bit of difference in the grand scheme, if you could even call it a scheme. To be a nihilist is to be both humbled and empowered, humbled by the absurdity and contingency of human evolution as a whole, but empowered by the freedom to choose how you want to define the course of your own life.

Sartre put it best: Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance. One always dies too soon or too late. And yet, life is there, finished: the line is drawn, and it must all be added up. You are nothing other than your life.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,389,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I believe we're part of something greater, so if the atheist humanists are right that would disturb me profoundly. Imagine, it's a sunny morning and you're driving to work. A big truck veers in front of you and you slam into it at 120 km/h. You lose consciousness and never wake up. That's the END, people, there's NOTHING after that, FOREVER! Doesn't that make you even a LITTLE uncomfortable (for those who say they are not bothered by it). I think it's cool if you truly do, I wish I could feel that way, but I'm trying to wrap my head around that kind of inner peace.
...
Though something may be uncomfortable to some, it doesn't make it any less true. I think this is how myths of an afterlife got started to begin with. Humans that were "uncomfortable" with being the mortal beings they were. It all ties in to looking for the fountain of youth and so on and so forth. For as long as humans have been alive, they have relentlessly looked for a way to cheat death. If you get slammed by that big mack truck, that very well could be the end.

{ and it's funny you mention it, because it happens to be something I am wary of every morning on my drive to work }
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:43 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,309,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Though something may be incomfortable to some, it doesn't make it any less true. If you get slammed by that big mack truck, thatr very well could be the end.
Exactly.

For example, far more horrific to me than the thought that I might die tomorrow and there would be no afterlife, is the thought of some terrible disease, injury, or crime being inflicted upon one of my children. But, such things are possible. They happen to the children of many someones every day.

Belief based on want, not evidence, is not particularly useful.
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,255,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I don't want to come across as self-centered, but if consciousness ends with our own death, than isn't it basically the end of the Universe, the end of EVERYTHING? Assuming there is no reincarnation, no future life. In effect, if this was the case, the Universe would be contained within that small space between your ears, and would be everything YOU personally experience, the sum of YOUR life.

I believe we're part of something greater, so if the atheist humanists are right that would disturb me profoundly. Imagine, it's a sunny morning and you're driving to work. A big truck veers in front of you and you slam into it at 120 km/h. You lose consciousness and never wake up. That's the END, people, there's NOTHING after that, FOREVER! Doesn't that make you even a LITTLE uncomfortable (for those who say they are not bothered by it). I think it's cool if you truly do, I wish I could feel that way, but I'm trying to wrap my head around that kind of inner peace.

I don't think immortality/afterlife makes life any less valuable. I'm sure there are some things you actually can't do in the afterlife than you could do here. But then who knows, I've only been alive for 25 years, and sometimes I get a little bored of it...
So, the universe didn't exist before you were born?
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,255,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Whether or not there is an afterlife, death is guaranteed and life is fleeting, therefore precious.
I respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree. I think the concept of an afterlife, especially a "heaven" or heaven-like place, greatly cheapens this life. I've heard Christians and Muslims say that they cannot wait to die so they can go to "heaven." If death is good, then why do doctors exist? Why is murder wrong? Why is saving lives right? Why is giving your life 'the ultimate sacrifice?' Of course death is horrific, life is excellent, and the concept of heaven does violence to the sanctity of life.

As for the believers who think they're getting an "eternal reward," even they don't believe their afterlife doctrines. They still carry concealed weapons, lock their doors, and wear their seat belts . . . it just shows how irrational a belief in an afterlife is. Deep down they KNOW there is no afterlife. They fear death just like the rest of us.

Also, I disagree with the opinion that "there might not be an afterlife."There IS NO afterlife! That is painfully obvious from a scientific standpoint . . . there is no soul, we remember nothing before our birth, our consciousness changes throughout our lives (you were a totally different person when you were two), and our sense of self can be altered by something as minor as a brain injury. The concept of an afterlife is profoundly absurd. A person believing in an afterlife because they are afraid of death is like a person pretending they have a million dollars in their bank account because they are afraid of getting evicted. It is irrational, delusional, and absurd.

I'm not certain about many things, but the nonexistence of an afterlife is one of the few things I am absolutely assured of. I'd stake my life on it (pun intended).
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