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Old 10-16-2011, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,248,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
There are no Atheists in fox-holes.
This is false.

Some people simply do not believe in any gods, regardless of whether their lives are in danger. Besides, nonexistence is less fearsome than hell.

Last edited by northstar22; 10-16-2011 at 01:27 AM..
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:34 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,801,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
There are no Atheists in fox-holes.
I don't know about foxholes, but I once spent three days and three nights on a 40 foot boat in hurricane force winds, and never thought about god once...The 50 foot waves scared the hell out of my crew though... I have been close to death at other times as well, and it didn't put a dent in my atheism.
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:40 AM
 
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You guys take all the fun out of old sayings!
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:50 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,801,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
You guys take all the fun out of old sayings!
LOL, sorry about that, but I have lead a very adventurous life, mostly as an offshore fisherman... I have been caught in a waterspout, crashed into rocks in bad weather, and been caught in many storms at sea. I have also experienced what some call a near death experience when I had a heart attack a few years ago, but none of this has shaken my non belief, although the heart attack came close....An NDE is very strange.
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Old 10-16-2011, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Out West
20,832 posts, read 15,592,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I don't want to come across as self-centered, but if consciousness ends with our own death, than isn't it basically the end of the Universe, the end of EVERYTHING? Assuming there is no reincarnation, no future life. In effect, if this was the case, the Universe would be contained within that small space between your ears, and would be everything YOU personally experience, the sum of YOUR life.

I believe we're part of something greater, so if the atheist humanists are right that would disturb me profoundly. Imagine, it's a sunny morning and you're driving to work. A big truck veers in front of you and you slam into it at 120 km/h. You lose consciousness and never wake up. That's the END, people, there's NOTHING after that, FOREVER! Doesn't that make you even a LITTLE uncomfortable (for those who say they are not bothered by it). I think it's cool if you truly do, I wish I could feel that way, but I'm trying to wrap my head around that kind of inner peace.

I don't think immortality/afterlife makes life any less valuable. I'm sure there are some things you actually can't do in the afterlife than you could do here. But then who knows, I've only been alive for 25 years, and sometimes I get a little bored of it...
This is one of the reasons why I think of death all of the time and do not wish to have it happen. What if they are right?

I have to believe in something. Maybe I don't believe in an orthodox religion but I do believe in something and that brings me a sense of comfort. Although, that's really it...I do believe something goes on after we "shred our mortal coil", as they say. I will also say, I do believe we have souls.

But where do we go? What happens to us? I don't know! And that's a bit unsettling as well because I have what I wish would happen but is it true?

And, again, there is that lingering wonder...what IF those who believe in nothingness are right? I don't think they are but what if they are? That would SUCK!!!! It's what I thought as a kid and I hated it. It kept me up at nights and gave me horrible nightmares. I find no peace with that way of thinking and I can't live my life like that.

The reason for this "confusion" is because I firmly believe there is something in us, a soul, if you will but at the same time I see so many people afraid to die. Animals are afraid to die. If everyone and animals are so afraid to die....why is that if there IS something after?

You see? This is why I can't turn it off, these thoughts. It would be so nice to go through life having faith...I guess I'm one of those that wants some kind of proof...knowing I won't get it while I'm here.
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:21 PM
 
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Just a point of contention, you say animals are afraid to die. I am not so sure they are. Clearly they are afraid of pain and injury, as am I. But what do they know of death? Likely nothing. Most of them have no concept of what it even is.

However the main issue is that just because one would prefer to think of an after life or one thinks that living their life would be pointless if there isnt.... none of this actually means there IS such a place. Instead it just gives you a bias to think there is, which clouds the mind and destroys reason.
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,425,383 times
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I had a motorcycle accident years ago in which I was run into by a truck which ran a red light. I was "there" one second and "gone" the next; I never saw it coming and didn't feel it hit me (or at least I have no recollection of it). I woke up 24 hours later in a hospital and wondered where I was. If the accident had killed me, I simply wouldn't have been anywhere at all since I would no longer have existed. The experience made me fear death a lot less. Sure, I think of my own death occasionally, but my main problem with the idea is not being around to see what happens later in the world. I try to stay busy enough with life not to waste my time thinking about death.

For the record, I am an atheist and only use the word "God" as a culturally osmoted expression on occasion. I think death is simply the end, oblivion, nada. It is nothing to fear (pun intended).
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:30 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,164,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
LOL, sorry about that, but I have lead a very adventurous life, mostly as an offshore fisherman... I have been caught in a waterspout, crashed into rocks in bad weather, and been caught in many storms at sea. I have also experienced what some call a near death experience when I had a heart attack a few years ago, but none of this has shaken my non belief, although the heart attack came close....An NDE is very strange.

Aha! So you admit.... you have never been in an actual foxhole in WW I? Gotcha! Ha ha!

Everybody raise their hands who have been in a WW I foxhole, please!
What's that? Nobody?

(I'm reminded of that sitcom Perfect Strangers where Larry Appleton would always ask his cousin "How many times have you [x]? So never, never have you [x]? As in zero times have you [x]?" and on and on and on....anyone remember that?)
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,378,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
LOL, sorry about that, but I have lead a very adventurous life, mostly as an offshore fisherman... I have been caught in a waterspout, crashed into rocks in bad weather, and been caught in many storms at sea. I have also experienced what some call a near death experience when I had a heart attack a few years ago, but none of this has shaken my non belief, although the heart attack came close....An NDE is very strange.
Boy oh boy, God's really try'n to get ya isn't he?

The above scenerios remind me a lot of the scene in Forest Gump when "capt. Dan" joins Forest on the shrimp boat and when they catch nothing, he says to Forest " where is this God of yours at?" After that the storms came raging in and there was capt. Dan on top of the boat more or less telling God to bring it on, remember that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Just a point of contention, you say animals are afraid to die. I am not so sure they are. Clearly they are afraid of pain and injury, as am I. But what do they know of death? Likely nothing. Most of them have no concept of what it even is.
.
I think I would have to disagree. I think animals do have a concept of death. When I used to work on a farm, and say a cow got sick or broke a leg, we would have to shoot it. After that we would hook a chain onto it and drag it up into the woods with the tractor. While this was going on, the other cattle just went plain crazy. I dont even know how to describe it but they would follow behind the tractor with their tounges hanging out as far as they would go and they would make the most awful bawling noise. It was quite disturbing to say the least. { I do realize this may sound cruel to some but that is just how things are done on a farm }

I dont know if these animals had any conept of their own mortality, but their is no doubt in my mind that they knew they had just lost one of their own.

Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 10-16-2011 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:18 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,417,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
This is one of the reasons why I think of death all of the time and do not wish to have it happen. What if they are right?

I have to believe in something. Maybe I don't believe in an orthodox religion but I do believe in something and that brings me a sense of comfort. Although, that's really it...I do believe something goes on after we "shred our mortal coil", as they say. I will also say, I do believe we have souls.

But where do we go? What happens to us? I don't know! And that's a bit unsettling as well because I have what I wish would happen but is it true?

And, again, there is that lingering wonder...what IF those who believe in nothingness are right? I don't think they are but what if they are? That would SUCK!!!! It's what I thought as a kid and I hated it. It kept me up at nights and gave me horrible nightmares. I find no peace with that way of thinking and I can't live my life like that.

The reason for this "confusion" is because I firmly believe there is something in us, a soul, if you will but at the same time I see so many people afraid to die. Animals are afraid to die. If everyone and animals are so afraid to die....why is that if there IS something after?

You see? This is why I can't turn it off, these thoughts. It would be so nice to go through life having faith...I guess I'm one of those that wants some kind of proof...knowing I won't get it while I'm here.
I am very familiar with the types of thoughts you have, Three Wolves, and am struggling with the faith I was brought up in. I believe Christ came to save us not only from death but hopefully, if we have enough faith, the fear of death. I don't mean to preach, but like you I feel I gotta believe in something, that religion is at least true in that regards. I don't find nothingness that comforting either; at times it seems not so scary, but I don't know, it does make me feel this life is sort of pointless. Whereas with God at least we can hope for a higher kind of existence. I'm the first to admit that sometimes 'wishful thinking' and ignorance might be preferable, if they don't hurt someone, but that's a different thing from going against plain evidence. The way I see it there isn't clear scientific evidence something does survive after death, but then I believe that's because the scientific method doesn't have the last say on things and you can't measure EVERYTHING with science. Anyway, I hope you find peace!
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