Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jesus said that the most important command was to love your neighbor as yourself and do unto others as you would want done to yourself. Scripture also urges us to emulate God as our best way of living. These two injunctions are completely contradictory when we think of when God chooses to punish mankind. He is kicking instead of applying a cure or forgiveness as Jesus would do.
It would seem to me that neither Noah nor the God depicted in this myth, are cut from the same cloth as Jesus was. In fact, they do the opposite of what Jesus would do.
Jesus could not have been around in that days as he would have intervened. As shown in the story of the stoning of the harlot. So much for the trinity concept as well. I never did like the notion of taking Jesus, a good Rabbi, sometimes, and tying him to the genocidal fool of a God of the O T. A complete insult to a good archetypal man.
Jesus is the way --- to believers.
Jesus would not condone Noah’s complicity in God’s genocidal fit and would therefore have to sentence Noah to hell or death.
If Jesus was around in Noah’s day and did nothing, in terms of intervention, he to would be complicit and end in hell, since he could not condone his own lack of action and was breaking his own best advise to do unto others.
Was Jesus, written up the way he was, a goody two shoes, in an effort to usurp the immoral O T God and Noah?
Was he written up as a new and improved God?
What was Jesus doing during God’s immoral genocidal fit?
Was he urging God to stop murdering and follow his own law and do unto others?
What's interesting is that Abram - when faced with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah - is horrified at God's plans, and he engages in a long, edifying attempt at trying to persuade God from destroying the innocent along with the guilty, and manages to haggle God down to a more just plan ; Noah - on the other hand - makes no attempt whatsoever to convince God to avert his plans to destroy all mankind (at least as far as we are told). He just goes with the flow (pun intended) and survives. Quite a contrast between the characters, I think.
An added note - while Abram argues vociferously with God to spare the innocent at Sodom, he makes absolutely no attempt at saving his own son, Isaac, from the sacrifice that he has been commanded to make of him. Another interesting contrast...
Anyways - it's pretty difficult to apply later teachings (1st century Christian teachings) to people living many hundreds of years prior - it's like condemning a historical figure for not paying mininum wage to his peasant slaves heh heh.
If we look closely at the NT and ask ourselves what was Jesus(as) like. It does not seem the NT answers that. We do have some Quotes attributed to Him in the NT perhaps we can determine His nature by them?
"For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 )
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 )
"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16)
"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21)
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).
“...the scripture cannot be broken.” --(Jesus Christ, John 10:35)
Reading those I assume Jesus(as) is a very strong follower of the OT and as such should have Qualities very similar to Noah, Moses, Abraham (PBUT)
..... "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12) .....
What does this have to do with anything? Do you have some obsession with eunuchs?
What does this have to do with anything? Do you have some obsession with eunuchs?
Jewish rabbis in ancient times used the word saris to describe both castrated individuals and uncastrated individuals, men the rabbis referred to as natural eunuchs. The Hebrew word saris-eunuch, is found 45 times in the Old Testament, translated in the King James Bible as eunuch 17 times, chamberlain 13 times, officer 12 times and Rabsaris, 3 times. Eunuchs are mentioned 10 times in six verses in the New Testament.
It was an OT belief. I intended to Point out Jesus(as) did not do away with the OT and that Jesus(as) and his followers did still obey it. I see the Nature of Jesus(as) as having been one of piety and obedience to the OT. Or in other words very similar to Noah(as) as the OP describes him.
Last edited by Woodrow LI; 10-13-2011 at 04:15 PM..
What's interesting is that Abram - when faced with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah - is horrified at God's plans, and he engages in a long, edifying attempt at trying to persuade God from destroying the innocent along with the guilty, and manages to haggle God down to a more just plan ; Noah - on the other hand - makes no attempt whatsoever to convince God to avert his plans to destroy all mankind (at least as far as we are told). He just goes with the flow (pun intended) and survives. Quite a contrast between the characters, I think.
An added note - while Abram argues vociferously with God to spare the innocent at Sodom, he makes absolutely no attempt at saving his own son, Isaac, from the sacrifice that he has been commanded to make of him. Another interesting contrast...
Anyways - it's pretty difficult to apply later teachings (1st century Christian teachings) to people living many hundreds of years prior - it's like condemning a historical figure for not paying mininum wage to his peasant slaves heh heh.
I agree and in that case, religions should not try to shove 3000 year old laws from barbaric times down our throats today the way that they do.
If we look closely at the NT and ask ourselves what was Jesus(as) like. It does not seem the NT answers that. We do have some Quotes attributed to Him in the NT perhaps we can determine His nature by them?
"For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 )
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 )
"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16)
"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21)
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).
“...the scripture cannot be broken.” --(Jesus Christ, John 10:35)
Reading those I assume Jesus(as) is a very strong follower of the OT and as such should have Qualities very similar to Noah, Moses, Abraham (PBUT)
And to Christians, similar to God himself yet he is not at all like his genocidal father.
If Noah were like Jesus then he would never have done to others what he did. The same with Moses. His first act when returning to his people was to kill, what was it 3,000, because they built the golden calf.
A good way to follow----though shalt not kill. He may have been for the o T but had a hard time with commandments. Especially where he disagreed with Jesus on the terms of divorce.
Let's clear a few things up. The Bible teaches that God is Jesus and Jesus is God. Yes Jesus is also a man, but He is also the Son of God, that is God himself. So the same God who condemned Sodom and Gemorrah, and caused the flood, and killed all the first born in Egypt, etc, is also the same God who tells us to love our neighbor as ourselves. But God's/love is greater still because He offers Himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world and offers to forgive all sins to anyone who repents of their sins, asks for forgiveness and puts their faith in God above all things.
God is God. He can create life, judge people and condemn them. It is his to judge, not ours. We are the creature, He is the Creator. Jesus is also God, and many times warned of the coming judgment upon all who do not worship the true God, FAther Son and Holy Spirit.
Let's clear a few things up. The Bible teaches that God is Jesus and Jesus is God. Yes Jesus is also a man, but He is also the Son of God, that is God himself. So the same God who condemned Sodom and Gemorrah, and caused the flood, and killed all the first born in Egypt, etc, is also the same God who tells us to love our neighbor as ourselves. But God's/love is greater still because He offers Himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world and offers to forgive all sins to anyone who repents of their sins, asks for forgiveness and puts their faith in God above all things.
God is God. He can create life, judge people and condemn them. It is his to judge, not ours. We are the creature, He is the Creator. Jesus is also God, and many times warned of the coming judgment upon all who do not worship the true God, FAther Son and Holy Spirit.
So the same God who used genocide to depopulate the world, reformed to where he would not even stone a prostitute and to a sacrificial ransom to himself. How nice. Retarded but nice.
Thanks for mouthing your dogma.
Follow your genocidal God. It shows how well your faith has guided your morals. Lack of that is.
Let's clear a few things up. The Bible teaches that God is Jesus and Jesus is God. Yes Jesus is also a man, but He is also the Son of God, that is God himself. So the same God who condemned Sodom and Gemorrah, and caused the flood, and killed all the first born in Egypt, etc, is also the same God who tells us to love our neighbor as ourselves. But God's/love is greater still because He offers Himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world and offers to forgive all sins to anyone who repents of their sins, asks for forgiveness and puts their faith in God above all things.
God is God. He can create life, judge people and condemn them. It is his to judge, not ours. We are the creature, He is the Creator. Jesus is also God, and many times warned of the coming judgment upon all who do not worship the true God, FAther Son and Holy Spirit.
Only if you can prove the NT is the true teachings of Jesus(as) and he actually did command us to worship the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
No where will you find Jesus(as) telling his followers to worship him. He was quite specific in How he taught his followers to pray. Which most Christians would not even recognize as it originally was.
In Aramaic (The Language of Jesus ) as written before being translated to Koin Greek:
Abwûn
"Father/Mother--Mother/Father--Birther--Creator"
d'bwaschmâja
Who fills all realms of sound, light and vibration.
Nethkâdasch schmach
May Your light be experienced in my utmost holiest.
Têtê malkuthach.
Your rule/law approaches.
Nehwê tzevjânach aikâna d'bwaschmâja af b'arha.
Let Your will come true - in the universe (all that vibrates)
Just as on earth (that is material and dense).
Hawvlân lachma d'sûnkanân jaomâna.
Give us wisdom (understanding, assistance) for our daily need,
Waschboklân chaubên wachtahên aikâna
Daf chnân schwoken l'chaijabên.
Remove all that prisons us.
Like we let go the guilt of others.
Wela tachlân l'nesjuna
Let us not be lost in superficial things (materialism, common temptations),
Ela patzân min bischa.
But let us be freed from that what keeps us off from our true purpose.
From You comes the all-working will, the lively strength to act,
The song that beautifies all and renews itself from age to age.
Amên.
Sealed in trust, faith and truth.
(I confirm with my entire being)
From the Word of God, The Holy Qur'an
"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.