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Old 10-17-2011, 01:01 AM
 
2,447 posts, read 2,580,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Proof they are all delusion?
Delusion
1. an act or instance of deluding.

2. the state of being deluded.

3. a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.

4. Psychiatry . a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.


Now, let's look at the basic tenets of some religions:

Christianity (from the Ancient Greek word Χριστός, Khristos, "Christ", literally "anointed one") is a monotheistic religion[1] based on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in canonical gospels and other New Testament writings.[2] Adherents of the Christian faith are known as Christians.[3]
Christianity teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, God having become human and the saviour of humanity. Because of this, Christians commonly refer to Jesus as Christ or Messiah.[4]

Islam: is the monotheistic religion articulated by the Qur’an, a text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Arabic: الله‎ Allāh), and by the teachings and normative example (called the Sunnah and composed of Hadith) of Muhammad, considered by them to be the last prophet of God. An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim. Muslims believe that God is one and incomparable and the purpose of existence is to worship God.[1][2] Muslims also believe that Islam is the complete and universal version of a primordial faith that was revealed at many times and places before, including through Abraham, Moses and Jesus, whom they consider prophets.[3]

I was going to keep going, until I realized this is like explaining addition to a mathematician. People should just already know this.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,936,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganusn View Post
Delusion
1. an act or instance of deluding.

2. the state of being deluded.

3. a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.

4. Psychiatry . a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.


Now, let's look at the basic tenets of some religions:

Christianity (from the Ancient Greek word Χριστός, Khristos, "Christ", literally "anointed one") is a monotheistic religion[1] based on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in canonical gospels and other New Testament writings.[2] Adherents of the Christian faith are known as Christians.[3]
Christianity teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, God having become human and the saviour of humanity. Because of this, Christians commonly refer to Jesus as Christ or Messiah.[4]

Islam: is the monotheistic religion articulated by the Qur’an, a text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Arabic: الله‎ Allāh), and by the teachings and normative example (called the Sunnah and composed of Hadith) of Muhammad, considered by them to be the last prophet of God. An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim. Muslims believe that God is one and incomparable and the purpose of existence is to worship God.[1][2] Muslims also believe that Islam is the complete and universal version of a primordial faith that was revealed at many times and places before, including through Abraham, Moses and Jesus, whom they consider prophets.[3]

I was going to keep going, until I realized this is like explaining addition to a mathematician. People should just already know this.
I said prove all are delusional... This doesn't prove any are delusional.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:24 AM
 
2,447 posts, read 2,580,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I said prove all are delusional... This doesn't prove any are delusional.
If you can't understand why people making things up and believing them as facts isn't a delusion, then I can't help you.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:50 AM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,611,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
Rather than being delusional, I like to think of the different religions of the world as akin to spokes on a wagon wheel. They are all in slightly different positions, and take slightly different paths, but nonetheless lead to the same central, most important place.

Peace Out, hombres.
I like that!
I'd never considered different religious beliefs as spokes on a wagon wheel - good analogy!
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganusn View Post
If you can't understand why people making things up and believing them as facts isn't a delusion, then I can't help you.
Who doesn't do that? WE ALL DO THAT! We can't help but think illusionally. (I prefer the word illusional over delusional.)

Whenever you think about anything, you neglect to consider countless perspectives of reality. Even as you sit at the computer, you probably are pretending that all that is happening is what is on this forum, or maybe noises around you. You probably aren't thinking of the reality that your heart is beating, that your blood vessels are taking oxygen to & from your heart & body... how your digestive system is responding to food or lack of it... Those are constant realities, we illusionally ignore (sometimes to our detriment), so we can focus on other things.

Similarly... when interacting with others, we illusionally assume a lot. We tend to pretend that they think as we do, as if it were fact, when it isn't.
Some people pretend life sucks... to the point that they want to kill themselves. (Suicide kills more than war.)
We must humbly realize we don't see the big picture... & feel empowered to realize that we can control how we think (& thus feel) - by distinguishing dysfunctional illusions from functional illusions... & focusing on what helps us & others.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:00 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,072,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
Rather than being delusional, I like to think of the different religions of the world as akin to spokes on a wagon wheel. They are all in slightly different positions, and take slightly different paths, but nonetheless lead to the same central, most important place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
I'd never considered different religious beliefs as spokes on a wagon wheel - good analogy!
The issue is that for most religions that "central place" is the claim that there is a god. A claim that thus far is not just slightly, but entirely unsubstantiated and baseless.

Then the religions diverge like your spokes on a wheel, and since the base is entirely devoid of substantiation there is little method for inter-faith dialogue. Each faith consists of things entirely made up and so there is no basis for common dialogue any more than two children with a shared imaginary friend arguing over whether the imaginary friend is white or asian.

So the spokes on your wheel never meet. Thus religion can be a conversation stopper and in our civilization, with our weaponry and penchant for violence, conversation stoppers are one of the most dangerous threats there is.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,936,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganusn View Post
If you can't understand why people making things up and believing them as facts isn't a delusion, then I can't help you.
You can call something delusional all you want. But until you can explain in great detail and provide empirical evidence, the claim is false.

I can say all atheists are rude. If I base my theory on limited information like you have, then I can assume that I am right. But, I know that not all atheists are rude. In fact most are quite nice people.

I highly doubt you know about all religions and the people that follow them. So your claim is without merit.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,042 posts, read 30,728,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
You can call something delusional all you want. But until you can explain in great detail and provide empirical evidence, the claim is false.

I can say all atheists are rude. If I base my theory on limited information like you have, then I can assume that I am right. But, I know that not all atheists are rude. In fact most are quite nice people.

I highly doubt you know about all religions and the people that follow them. So your claim is without merit.
I believe this web site has the detailed explanation you seek...

Religion
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:54 PM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,611,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
The issue is that for most religions that "central place" is the claim that there is a god. A claim that thus far is not just slightly, but entirely unsubstantiated and baseless.

Then the religions diverge like your spokes on a wheel, and since the base is entirely devoid of substantiation there is little method for inter-faith dialogue. Each faith consists of things entirely made up and so there is no basis for common dialogue any more than two children with a shared imaginary friend arguing over whether the imaginary friend is white or asian.

So the spokes on your wheel never meet. Thus religion can be a conversation stopper and in our civilization, with our weaponry and penchant for violence, conversation stoppers are one of the most dangerous threats there is.
Good point.
When religious definitions of God clash, there have been wars etc.
The clashing, though, is not because there is no God... it's because people interpret things differently & are stuck in the self-centered perspective that all must see things they way they see them, as if there is only one way to conceive of God.

Who/What is God?
I have yet to hear a definition aside from those from dictionaries, which depend on his-story,
which depends on years of twisted politically-motivated religious doctrine.
WHO/WHAT IS GOD?
Think about it. Feel about it.
Put aside all of the things you've heard about God for a moment.

Think about & consider how you feel when someone hugs you, or shows love to you in a meaningful way... or how you feel when you love. Think about what motivates you... what excites you. Think about what motivates every living creature to survive. Consider the power yet to be understood... of dark/invisible energy/matter that permeates 95% of the universe, including us... Consider the genius of creation...


Nature by Numbers - YouTube
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:31 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,072,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
The clashing, though, is not because there is no God... it's because people interpret things differently & are stuck in the self-centered perspective
Indeed it is entirely likely that if there was a god that the same effect as I describe could still come about because people interpret that god, and its message, differently.

However given the lack of even an iota of substantiation for the idea that there is a god, it would appear that the effect I describe very much is because of the lack of existence of the entity, rather than our misinterpretation of an existing entity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
Who/What is God?
That is entirely up to the person claiming it exists to define. If someone wants to claim there is a god then it is up to them, not me, to tell us what they mean by that word.

For example some people on here think god is anything you want to call god, and therefore god must exist because they have called something that does exist "god". You do this by essentially equating god with feelings like love and cuddles.

Such "arguments" simply bore me. They are not discussing god. They are just playing with language in order to attain a position that is otherwise untenable. If you want to go around relabeling things, fine, it is not the discussion I have been having.

The concept of god I argue against is any concept that is based on claiming that a non human intelligence exists and it is responsible for the creation and/or subsequent maintenance of our universe. This appears to be what "god" means in the major religions like Christianity and Islam.
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