U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-21-2011, 01:58 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,578,141 times
Reputation: 1760

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post

Sure, instead it should be dismissed because it is unnecessary and adds nothing to our knowledge. It's truly meaningless even if it is true - and we can never know if it is true or not. It's basically a totally useless and completely interchangeable with "I don't know". So the problem is not with science that it can't be disproved - the problem is with deists in showing us why it's worth worrying about at all.
If science is not your only tool of rational inquiry, then there may be other ways to prove or disprove deism.

I agree that I'm not sure why Deism is worth worrying about. Yet here I say, writing pages about it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-21-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,578,141 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Uhmmm.. Boxcar my old pal; check out the OP, which I started. It's actually about the Scientific Method and it's understanding and acceptance by the community at large. It's relevant that this poster, KD, seems to deny it's functional relevance and strengths, versus his version, which relies on supernatural events with no evidence in hand.

Did I miss a complete re-direction of my thread somewhere in here, mutating into your claimed debate about Deism & theism? I had no idea myself!

I think so my friend. I believe KD is a Deist who in no way disputes the scientific methodology, but only disputes that it's application refutes Deism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2011, 02:29 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,578,141 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post

Yours was either a dishonest post or you don't understand the terms we are discussing. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mistakenly believe "probability" and a "probability distribution" are the same thing. They are not.

There is a clear difference between "probability" and a "probability distribution"

Probability is simply the likelyhood of a single event happening, and it can mathmatically be expressed in a range from 0 to 1. Thus the probability of a coin toss landing on heads is roughly equal to .5.

There is no mention of range and distribution in reporting a simple probability.

Accordingly, as I correctly stated, a "probability" does not have a range and distribution, it's underlying data does.

However, as a curtesy to you I went on to correctly calculate the range and distribution of the underlying data, which in both cases was "infinite". because there are an infinte number of possible theories.

A "probability distribution" on the other hand describes the "probability" of every individual possible outcome. For example, if we through a pair of dice, the probability distribution would tell us the likely hood of getting every possible outcome, while Probability would tell us the likelyhood of getting an individual outcome.


Here is my unedited original post:
Quote:
Stictly speaking, a "probablity" doesn't have a range and distribution.
The range and distribution are used to describe data that leads to a probability. So while the probability might not change, the range and distribution would be dependent on the data. In other words, you could change the sample size and come up with different ranges and distributions of the data.

So the correct questions is, what are the range and distribution of the data.

In this case, the range of data is "infinity" and the distribution is also infinite, since each theory is different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2011, 02:47 PM
 
912 posts, read 698,322 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
Prove to me from reported or recorded evidence that it was between exactly those dates. Then determine the values of judgment by which the subject develops. Is your point we wait for him?
Did you forget me letting you know I thoroughly enjoy figuring out some of your well thought out entries .............. sharing the experience
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2011, 02:59 PM
 
912 posts, read 698,322 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Yours was either a dishonest post or you don't understand the terms we are discussing. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mistakenly believe "probability" and a "probability distribution" are the same thing. They are not.

There is a clear difference between "probability" and a "probability distribution"

Probability is simply the likelyhood of a single event happening, and it can mathmatically be expressed in a range from 0 to 1. Thus the probability of a coin toss landing on heads is roughly equal to .5.

There is no mention of range and distribution in reporting a simple probability.

Accordingly, as I correctly stated, a "probability" does not have a range and distribution, it's underlying data does.

However, as a curtesy to you I went on to correctly calculate the range and distribution of the underlying data, which in both cases was "infinite". because there are an infinte number of possible theories.

A "probability distribution" on the other hand describes the "probability" of every individual possible outcome. For example, if we through a pair of dice, the probability distribution would tell us the likely hood of getting every possible outcome, while Probability would tell us the likelyhood of getting an individual outcome.


Here is my unedited original post:
this post is flawed and illogical ....its so congested with error I cannot
address quickly and efficiently...re-state and I will comment
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,578,141 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Hue View Post
this post is flawed and illogical ....its so congested with error I cannot
address quickly and efficiently...re-state and I will comment

I will restate:

1. Probability is different than Probability Distribution.

2. Probability is a statement of likelyhood that is by convention expressed mathmatically in a range from 0 to 1.

3. Strictly speaking, Probability does not have a range or distribution itself, but the data underlying it has a range and distribution.

4. Probability distribution, on the other hand, is a statement expressing the likelyhood of a series of outcomes.

5. For example, if I rolled a dice, probability would be used to describe the likelyhood of getting a particular outcome, "3" for example. The probability of rolling a 3 is .166666.

6. Probability distribution describes the likelyhood of getting each of possible outcome. If I rolled two discrete dice, I would a probability distribution that looked like this:



7. The above probability distribution table is not the same thing as a simple probability.


I eagerly await your analysis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-21-2011, 10:43 PM
 
912 posts, read 698,322 times
Reputation: 115
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill ...page 12

I would add this though:
1. Any given explanation we have now will likely have a very small probability of being correct, given the wide ranges of possibilities

KC replies

What's the range and distribution of the probabilities?

Boxcar says

Stictly speaking, a "probablity" doesn't have a range and distribution.
The range and distribution are used to describe data that leads to a probability. So while the probability might not change, the range and distribution would be dependent on the data. In other words, you could change the sample size and come up with different ranges and distributions of the data.So the correct questions is, what are the range and distribution of the data.
In this case, the range of data is "infinity" and the distribution is also infinite, since each theory is different.

KC reply

Sorry, math disagrees with you : Probability distribution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Box reply

Yours was either a dishonest post or you don't understand the terms we are discussing. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mistakenly believe "probability" and a "probability distribution" are the same thing. They are not.
There is a clear difference between "probability" and a "probability distribution"
Probability is simply the likelyhood of a single event happening, and it can mathmatically be expressed in a range from 0 to 1. Thus the probability of a coin toss landing on heads is roughly equal to .5.
There is no mention of range and distribution in reporting a simple probability.
Accordingly, as I correctly stated, a "probability" does not have a range and distribution, it's underlying data does.
However, as a curtesy to you I went on to correctly calculate the range and distribution of the underlying data, which in both cases was "infinite". because there are an infinte number of possible theories.
A "probability distribution" on the other hand describes the "probability" of every individual possible outcome. For example, if we through a pair of dice, the probability distribution would tell us the likely hood of getting every possible outcome, while Probability would tell us the likelyhood of getting an individual outcome.

Here is my unedited original post:
Quote:
Stictly speaking, a "probablity" doesn't have a range and distribution.
The range and distribution are used to describe data that leads to a probability. So while the probability might not change, the range and distribution would be dependent on the data. In other words, you could change the sample size and come up with different ranges and distributions of the data.
So the correct questions is, what are the range and distribution of the data.
In this case, the range of data is "infinity" and the distribution is also infinite, since each theory is different.

Blue says...

You are implying a probability event in a random variable without... ability in taking necessary certain values due to an infinite circumstance which you above describe and then employ

In other words....lets say I ask you to pick a number , any number as long in whole numbers as you like.....(infinite)....in this example there lies no probability factor or distribution. There is simply no instance in required value without a required barrior...."infinite".. probability is a relative concept

therefore your comment at the top of this page which started this whole thing off...Box says
I would add this though:
1. Any given explanation we have now will likely have a very small probability of being correct, given the wide ranges of possibilities

Blue continuing...by saying the data is "infinite" in order to dress up the alledged distribution, the word probability cannot be fixed to the subject..it is illogical due to lack in value or defined pool to draw a consequential distribution from....

Last edited by Blue Hue; 10-21-2011 at 11:23 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2011, 12:47 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,578,141 times
Reputation: 1760
This seems like a pretty silly topic to dwell on, but you guys seem pretty interested in it, so lets go.
I said the probability was small.

Strangely, he asked about the range and distribution of the number of possible theories.

The range is infinite.

If the range is infinite, then there is a 1/infinite chance for each of the infinite individual possible theories to be correct, which is to say there is an infinite distribution of theories, each with a zero percent chance of being correct.

That is pretty improbable.

But that's a pretty strange way of looking at it. I don't the question made much sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2011, 01:55 AM
 
912 posts, read 698,322 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
This seems like a pretty silly topic to dwell on, but you guys seem pretty interested in it, so lets go.
I said the probability was small.

Strangely, he asked about the range and distribution of the number of possible theories.

The range is infinite.

If the range is infinite, then there is a 1/infinite chance for each of the infinite individual possible theories to be correct, which is to say there is an infinite distribution of theories, each with a zero percent chance of being correct.

That is pretty improbable.

But that's a pretty strange way of looking at it. I don't the question made much sense.
agreed... it wouldn't seem to be infinite in possibilities

Last edited by Blue Hue; 10-22-2011 at 02:17 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2011, 03:06 AM
 
912 posts, read 698,322 times
Reputation: 115
Where did the point from the BB come from if it always existed and never changed. Nothing outside of it could of changed it.... Remember nothing was there....If the point did exist then logically it would have always existed and would not have a start up mechanism BB, but it did. The point expanded agressively although how..? nothing outside of it to add to it in order to destabalize..... A photon and an electron is required and that is not nothing
Where is the kinetic energy in something which always was and suddenly
erupted violently...nothing is in motion within it as nothing is created...if it created itself, nothingness cannot create as nothingness does not exist...a potencial in nothing does not exist...otherwise it always would have existed and there would be no beginning....

either it always existed, it created itself or something else happened, God did it? I favour a different entry scheme-nature in the God idea ( for now...

Last edited by Blue Hue; 10-22-2011 at 03:47 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top