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Old 08-23-2007, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 222,971 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpdsag View Post
This is a very hard topic because I had a personal experience with this. I am a christian and I "DO NOT" believe in abortion. I feel that the bible is against abortion. Now, most abortions are from un-wed women and the bible pro-hibits sex before marriage. So what do you think the lord thinks? To me it is simple. Now, with that said, when I was 27 my husband and I were expecting our 2 child. To make a very long story short, at two months they thought I had a tubal pregnancy and rushed me into surgery to terminate the pregnancy. This was the worst day of my life, I was loosing a baby and having an abortion. I could not stop crying and they had to give me a sedative to calm me down. Now, I was fortunate and they found a problem not associated with my pregnancy and my baby was spared. Thank god above for the doctor doing the surgery, she had a gut feeling that it was a different problem, not a problem with the pregnancy,and she stopped the surgery. Praise god above I have a beautiful 8 year old son who otherwise would not be here today. He is such a joy and shows everyone so much love and affection. Now, my question is how do you think god would have looked at this had I had the abortion? This is a tough one for me. If I needed the surgery and did not get it I would have died and so would the baby. This is the area that is blurry to me. I would like to hear opinions from others on this. What is yours?
God knew the ins and outs of the situation better than you or the doctors. If it had been a problem with the pregnancy then God would have known that this is the step you had to take to save your life.
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Old 08-23-2007, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Plano, Texas
8,640 posts, read 14,425,773 times
Reputation: 21128
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpdsag View Post
This is a very hard topic because I had a personal experience with this. I am a christian and I "DO NOT" believe in abortion. I feel that the bible is against abortion. Now, most abortions are from un-wed women and the bible pro-hibits sex before marriage. So what do you think the lord thinks? To me it is simple. Now, with that said, when I was 27 my husband and I were expecting our 2 child. To make a very long story short, at two months they thought I had a tubal pregnancy and rushed me into surgery to terminate the pregnancy. This was the worst day of my life, I was loosing a baby and having an abortion. I could not stop crying and they had to give me a sedative to calm me down. Now, I was fortunate and they found a problem not associated with my pregnancy and my baby was spared. Thank god above for the doctor doing the surgery, she had a gut feeling that it was a different problem, not a problem with the pregnancy,and she stopped the surgery. Praise god above I have a beautiful 8 year old son who otherwise would not be here today. He is such a joy and shows everyone so much love and affection. Now, my question is how do you think god would have looked at this had I had the abortion? This is a tough one for me. If I needed the surgery and did not get it I would have died and so would the baby. This is the area that is blurry to me. I would like to hear opinions from others on this. What is yours?
Well, lpdsag, this is just kaykay's two cents, but I am just about as pro-life as they come (ask anyone on this forum ) I don't think a case of a tubal pregnancy is at all the same as an abortion because as you said the baby cannot survive outside the uterus (barring some miracle) and if you wait for a rupture, it's my understanding the baby and mother may die then. This is just my opinion, but as someone staunchly pro-life, I think in the issue of a tubal pregnancy, you realistically have no choice but to intervene. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I believe.
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Old 08-23-2007, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 222,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
Well, lpdsag, this is just kaykay's two cents, but I am just about as pro-life as they come (ask anyone on this forum ) I don't think a case of a tubal pregnancy is at all the same as an abortion because as you said the baby cannot survive outside the uterus (barring some miracle) and if you wait for a rupture, it's my understanding the baby and mother may die then. This is just my opinion, but as someone staunchly pro-life, I think in the issue of a tubal pregnancy, you realistically have no choice but to intervene. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I believe.
You're not wrong kaykay. Even my parent's would agree with you here...and we all know about Jeff's right-wing, but certainly beloved, parents!
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 3,823,885 times
Reputation: 1120
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
You and padgett are Brits? I didnt' know that!

Regarding the topic at hand, I myself was raised in a very pro-life leaning household. My parents were and our extremely pro-life, or some would call them anti-choice. I have seen the horrific pamphlets that show pictures of babies aborted late in the pregnancy. Only someone with no heart could look at that and be all FOR abortion.

Yet as I've gotten older, and had friends in various circumstances and problems, I have seen 1st hand how sometimes, life's choices are not black and white. I know that on the outside looking in it may seem so to you or me, but have you walked a mile in that person's shoes?

For Candace and myself, we would never, ever choose abortion unless her health were in jeapordy. And I will always encourage anyone who would ask me to look at other options, because I do think that abortion is, or should always be, the last alternative.

But while you may say that the baby is a fetus, and I may agree with you, the fact is it is INSIDE of another human being. I don't feel it is my place to tell another human being what they should do with thier body. Again, I'm not going to endorce or recommend abortion to them (not that what I would say would matter) but I don't believe in restricting their rights to their bodies.
I used to be staunchly pro-life/anti-abortion, ('though I don't really like those labels, but it merely points out how fundamentalist I once was), but like you, I have come to different conclusions. Life, indeed, is not black and white, as much as we might like it to be. Answers are not always all that simple.

Case in point: a few years ago, in CA, there was a young expectant mother, who was in a coma. Her doctors told the husband that the only way to save her life, and hopefully to bring her out of the coma, was to terminate the pregnancy. This poor man had to make a horrible decision. However, the media got ahold of the story, and the next thing you know, this husband was literally fighting off the pro-lifers, who went to the extreme of wanting to have guardianship of this lady, simply to halt the abortion. If I recall correctly, he finally was able to do as the doctors recommended, (though I don't recall what the final outcome was, as far as the young lady was concerned).

All I could think of, as this drama was playing out was, how would I have felt if that had been my daughter? How would my husband have felt, if it had been me? What right did these people have, no matter how staunch their beliefs, to interfere in someone else's life? My conclusion: they didn't have that right. If I would not want government or religious groups to interfere in a painful, private decision, that should only involve one's doctor and family, then what right do I have to do the same to someone else? Ultimately, each person will have to stand in front of their Creator, and answer for themselves, as to whether they did the right thing or not. That should be enough. There is no reason for me to be judge and jury.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:39 PM
 
6,957 posts, read 16,144,113 times
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As each year passes, most of us will become aware of happenings that tend to change our preception of others. We know, perhaps in our own families, of circumstances that change the unthinkable into something that should be done. It's part of our growth.

I am thinking of a woman that we know, the story is long and pitiful, but she was pregnant and the idea at the time was so dreadful to her, that she went off the deep end. Abortions were illegal. So after all attempts to salvage her and the pregnancy, her family and her doctors did the only thing possible at that time. A Hysterectormy. Her uterus, fetus and all, went. But, thanks to the law at that time, she did not have an abortion.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Texas
320 posts, read 20,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellinghamite View Post
I think you may have missed the point. Some people will use the phrase "pro-abortion" to mean what others call "pro-choice." .
The hope is that people will eventually understand there is no such thing as "pro-abortion." I've never met someone who encourages abortion as a form of birth control, not even Planned Parenthood.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 222,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padgett2 View Post
As each year passes, most of us will become aware of happenings that tend to change our preception of others. We know, perhaps in our own families, of circumstances that change the unthinkable into something that should be done. It's part of our growth.

I am thinking of a woman that we know, the story is long and pitiful, but she was pregnant and the idea at the time was so dreadful to her, that she went off the deep end. Abortions were illegal. So after all attempts to salvage her and the pregnancy, her family and her doctors did the only thing possible at that time. A Hysterectormy. Her uterus, fetus and all, went. But, thanks to the law at that time, she did not have an abortion.
Horrible. It is stories like this and CelticLady's, and people I have known and seen go through this personally, that made me change my position...not that I actually identify with the "pro-choice' label. I simply don't think making an all encompassing decision for everyone, in every situation, is medically or lawfully wise.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Plano, Texas
8,640 posts, read 14,425,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
Horrible. It is stories like this and CelticLady's, and people I have known and seen go through this personally, that made me change my position...not that I actually identify with the "pro-choice' label. I simply don't think making an all encompassing decision for everyone, in every situation, is medically or lawfully wise.
I know I risk seeming unsympathetic,and I'm anything but that. However, I just don't think tragic stories justify ending an innocent life. In the extremely rare, (if they indeed exist at all) cases where a mother's life is truly hanging in the balance, a case might be made. Otherwise, I just don't see it.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
193 posts, read 699,908 times
Reputation: 196
I come down to this: Women who have had abortions often regret their decision. They will come before god and have to explain themselves, but being the lord full of grace that he is, will forgive you of any unrighteousnous you ask for. The key is asking for forgiveness, not just for any sins you have done during your day, week, month or year. Specifics, ask the lord for forgiveness for specific sins in your life (abortioin). Don't just lay your head down and say I am sorry lord for all of my sins, Amen. Talk to god, tell him how you hurt because of the sin in your life and explain to him why. How lucky are we to have such a gracefull lord!! A lord willing to forgive "all sins".
For those who have not had abortions and will in the future, I just hope that they find god in their lives before making that choice. Yes, I do understand "medical" problems you can not avoid (been there almost did that), but I pray for those just doing abortions to "fix" there mistakes.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 222,971 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
I know I risk seeming unsympathetic,and I'm anything but that. However, I just don't thing tragic stories justify ending an innocent life. In the extremely rare, (if they indeed exist at all) cases where a mother's life is truly hanging in the balance, a case might be made. Otherwise, I just don't see it.
Well, for me and Candace, it would only be in this rare occurance that we would choose abortion as an unfortunate option. But it DOES exist, as evidenced in the stories by padgett and celtic, and I have a couple myself. I don't agree with or like it, but making it across the board illegal just doesn't seem wise to me.
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