Atheists and Entheogens (America, quote, Christianity, God)

[Theophane]

What would happen if an atheist used an entheogenic drug? This assumes (perhaps incorrectly) that atheism is physically hardwired into the brains of unbelievers. Is it like sexual orientation or left/right handedness in this respect?

[gabfest]

The atheist has made his/her decision why not leave at that?

[Theophane]

I'm not convinced it is a decision.

[jackmccullough]

I don't even see how this is an interesting question.

Etheogens, which is a cute term for hallucinogens or psychedelics, affect how the brain works, as do many other drugs. (For instance, some readers may be familiar with some of the effects of alcohol on perception and cognition.)

During the 1950's and later, many people in the United States used LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, and other hallucinogens, and had unusual thoughts, visions, or other perceptions while under the influence of those drugs. It is likely that some of those people concluded that their experiences while under the influence disclosed some kind of "reality" that was not available to them without the benefit of the drugs. I suspect, though, that most of the people who took them realized that their experiences while under the influence of those drugs was the result of the drugs, and did not believe in the reality of their experiences when they were no longer subject to the drugs' effects.

Again, if you consider the effects of alcohol, one of the leading American philosophers of the late 20th century has observed that
certain people seem to be unusually attractive while the observer is under the influence, but they do not generally retain this evaluation after the effects of the alcohol intoxication have worn off.

There is no reason to think that the experience of people on hallucinogens is any different.

I make no assumption that atheism is hardwired into the brains of unbelievers. In fact, I've never heard such a suggestion. I have heard a suggestion that there is an innate tendency for some kind of religious belief. I don't think that really adds anything to the debate about the existence of gods and the validity of religions, however. Surely you can understand that the truth or falsity of a proposed fact is entirely independent of the tendency of one person, or even millions of people, to believe it.

[jackmccullough]

Originally Posted by Theophane

I'm not convinced it is a decision.

This is the one thing you've said that I probably agree with.

I could no more decide to believe in the existence of a god than I could decide to believe that 2+2=22, or that pi=3.000000.

Without sufficient evidence to believe in a factual proposition, I will not believe it regardless of my wishes. With sufficient evidence I cannot choose not to believe it.

[Theophane]

Originally Posted by jackmccullough

This is the one thing you've said that I probably agree with.

I could no more decide to believe in the existence of a god than I could decide to believe that 2+2=22, or that pi=3.000000.

Without sufficient evidence to believe in a factual proposition, I will not believe it regardless of my wishes. With sufficient evidence I cannot choose not to believe it.

Of course not! And that's why I will never try to convert an atheist to Christianity with some clever fluctuation of words. I don't expect to get into a YouTube war with Pat Condell and "destroy" him. Antagonism just feeds on itself forever ...

[Theophane]

Originally Posted by jackmccullough

I don't even see how this is an interesting question.

Etheogens, which is a cute term for hallucinogens or psychedelics, affect how the brain works, as do many other drugs. (For instance, some readers may be familiar with some of the effects of alcohol on perception and cognition.)

During the 1950's and later, many people in the United States used LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, and other hallucinogens, and had unusual thoughts, visions, or other perceptions while under the influence of those drugs. It is likely that some of those people concluded that their experiences while under the influence disclosed some kind of "reality" that was not available to them without the benefit of the drugs. I suspect, though, that most of the people who took them realized that their experiences while under the influence of those drugs was the result of the drugs, and did not believe in the reality of their experiences when they were no longer subject to the drugs' effects.

Again, if you consider the effects of alcohol, one of the leading American philosophers of the late 20th century has observed that
certain people seem to be unusually attractive while the observer is under the influence, but they do not generally retain this evaluation after the effects of the alcohol intoxication have worn off.

There is no reason to think that the experience of people on hallucinogens is any different.

I make no assumption that atheism is hardwired into the brains of unbelievers. In fact, I've never heard such a suggestion. I have heard a suggestion that there is an innate tendency for some kind of religious belief. I don't think that really adds anything to the debate about the existence of gods and the validity of religions, however. Surely you can understand that the truth or falsity of a proposed fact is entirely independent of the tendency of one person, or even millions of people, to believe it.

Appeal to Popularity, right?

That's okay. Sometimes I am not after an Agree or a Disagree.

[northstar22]

Originally Posted by jackmccullough

This is the one thing you've said that I probably agree with.

I could no more decide to believe in the existence of a god than I could decide to believe that 2+2=22, or that pi=3.000000.

Without sufficient evidence to believe in a factual proposition, I will not believe it regardless of my wishes. With sufficient evidence I cannot choose not to believe it.

I agree with this, but that doesn't mean that atheism is hardwired into people. I was an evangelical Christian for years, but deconverted when I realized that there was no evidence to support the religion's truth, and plenty of evidence proving it false.

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by Theophane

If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Seriously, my OP was not intended as an attack on atheists (there are enough of those already). It was my attempt at scientific curisioty.

Moderator cut: edit .

I've done lots of drugs, lots and lots of acid, shrooms, peyote, pretty much everything that existed at the time, and I'm still atheist.

Why don't you take some acid and see if it expands your mind?

[Theophane]

Originally Posted by northstar22

I agree with this, but that doesn't mean that atheism is hardwired into people. I was an evangelical Christian for years, but deconverted when I realized that there was no evidence to support the religion's truth, and plenty of evidence proving it false.

I'm not convinced that atheism is hardwired into people, either. I'm no expert on the human brain. Does the structure of your brain determine everything about who you are as a person? I don't think so. FWIW I don't believe in that kind of biological determinism.