The PURPOSE OF LIFE! (faith, Catholics, Christian, Christ)

[WhipperSnapper 88]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

To be honest there is something after death. And we have proof of it, it is called decomposing.

I think you know what I meant, lets not try and be cute. You know full well I was talking about spiritual nothingness.

[WhipperSnapper 88]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

i agree. but you cant look back from where you came. so when the sun comes up most important you give it your best shot. if you take care of today tomarrow will take care of itself.

Carpe Diem my freind, Carpe Diem.

{ seize the day }

[raison_d'etre]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88

Sure, you can make it up as you go along. How manylittle boys say, "I want to be a fireman when I grow up" or a policeman, or doctor, or whatever. Thats them contemplating a purpose for their lives.

Did you go to college? If so, how did you decide on a major? That's you deciding on a purpose for your life.

How did you decide what career you would have? Maybe you wanted to do something that would make a difference? Thats you deciding what the purpose of your life is.

I am sorry, but my career path is not my life purpose. A life purpose, in the manner we are discussing goes deeper. I am not saying that a persons career choice cannot be a lifes purpose. But I work in security, my lifes purpose is not to protect and serve junkies, Juggalos, and wannabe gangsters at a bus depot.

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

I agree. I would love someone to describe what nothing looks and feels like. It can't possibly be explained in this matter. You can claim it as a void, but a void is technically something.

No it's not. There is a void/nothing in my beer fridge....Well I suppose there is air in there, but no brew...

Check this out for the various things that people believe about the meaning of life. Meaning of life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[AREQUIPA]

Originally Posted by imcurious

It is impossible to "believe in nothing." No one can comprehend "nothing," because there is no such thing as "nothing." Have an excellent night yourself!

This is a rather quasi-obtuse and rhetorically crafty response. It should be obvious that Whippersnapper is just using shorthand for 'rather than have no explanation and accepting that we don't know what makes lightning or epileptic fits (as was once the case) we tend to invent invisible beings that do it all by magic, effectively'.

While this gives one the satisfaction of an answer, even if it is a false one (and as Spike Milligan wrote, a stopped clock is right once a day and that's better than no clock at all) the problem is that, when the real explanation comes along it may be rejected out of hand as it doesn't include gods or demons.

It is better to believe 'nothing' (that is say we don't know that particular answer - yet) than to just invent something out of our heads.

[raison_d'etre]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

No it's not. There is a void/nothing in my beer fridge....Well I suppose there is air in there, but no brew...

Check this out for the various things that people believe about the meaning of life. Meaning of life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We can't comprehend nothing. To us nothing is the absence of something. I would just like to know how so many people can know that "nothing" happens after you die? Have they studied it? Has anyone studied it? No, why? Because in order to study the afterlife, the first step you must take is to DIE! This is one field study that you won't come back from.

I know that various cultured believe many things when it comes to the mean of life. This is one part of history and culture that interests me. BTW, thanks for the link.

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by imcurious

It obviously does not resonate with you, but it does for me . . . it makes a lot of sense . . . I love this vid and I am going to try to live what she talks about as the second purpose.

Well OK, but it didn't resonate with me, because right off the bat, she "told" me what that purpose was, that in fact there IS a purpose (human-centered, BTW), which I dispute. Christians seem to NEED a reason for our being here, and they agonize over that question. Meantime, I'm saying there is no necessity, no true spiritual purpose.

Again, if you desperately need one, then by all means go for it, but it's not necessary for many of us. Just like there's absolutely no necessity to have ALL POSSIBLE QUESTIONS answered, because that requires a make-belief omnipotent God figure as an answerer of all questions, which is impossible on it's face!

Now, if she'd said "for those who insist on a meaning, here's my personal opinion...", but that's hardly what she assumptively said, is it?

Originally Posted by Terryj

I find that when people attempt to address this question they tend to forget that humans are only a small aspect of "Life on earth", so the purpose of life becomes a much larger question. I can assume that the speaker in this video does not consider life other than humans as relevant to this planet.

Agreed Terryj: the true arrogance of Christianity is their continued or implied claim that "man shall have dominion over the lesser beasts... blah blah blah ...", and that we were made in His image (i.e.: perfection but with sin!)

What a crock! Especially since almost all of the so-called animal world pre-evolved us by at least a few million years, and they move in a world far more complete than ours, with senses we can only imagine.

Originally Posted by Terryj

Just that aspect of thinking that you'd have to return to this world to make up for something you did in a past life is in fact a form of reward and punishment. To say I have to come back to attone for a deed when I might choose that I don't want to come back would be a punishment.

Also agreed. Her ploy is to guilt us out, that we have to come back and atone. For what again? Especially since we can't remember our previous lives how would we do that? (esp. since such a prior life doesn't exist...)

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

Thank you. I honestly do not know why people like rifleman must attack someone in this way? You didn't come on here to attack or make them watch it. He chose to watch it, good for him. He formed an opinion about it, awesome. He then bashed others for having been touched by the video.

It is people like that the world does not need.

How can we keep our beliefs to ourselves when our personal beliefs are constantly attacked? If you want us to keep them private, then don't bash them in a conversation you were not directly invited.

If I say asked someone for their thoughts on something and left it open. Then I would expect shallow remarks to come about. But if I am simply sharing something I find beautiful and would like to show it to others, I don't expect someone to come right out and attack it.

[quote=hurt_rflmn]Shallow? again, the ad hominems toward my thoughts. You are SO transparent, and shallow!

And so: you'de have this forum as a statement only format? As in: no open debate allowed? I've told you exactly why I found her absolute statements insincere (or alternately, truly arrogant and religio-centric) ans her presentation so appallingly out of touch.

That's my opinion; you obviously disagree. So be it: I'm not stopping you from posting your personal ideas, and this is NOT the Christian-Only sub, BTW! And you hardly kept them to yourself, now did you? Apparently, if you were king, all us atheists would be captured and herded to something like.. one of those camps Hitler the Catholic loved I'd suspect...

I also dislike the ongoing idea that, absent Christianty, we atheists must be ethically & morally bankrupt, functionally unpleasant and selfish, and totally without generosity, love or humanity.

I can say categorically that the expressive fundamentalist Christians I've met, so many of them, are sneeringly arrogant, assumptive about their being right about God, and without acceptance of any alternate viewpoints.

Now then, for the best durned post so far:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88

Everyone is always saying...."if there is no God, no heaven, then what is the purpose for life?"

My question is, why does there need to be one?

What is written in stone that says there absolutely has to be a reason why life exists? Where do these people get that from?

My thoughts on it are this, we each decide our own purpose in life.

Thank you, Whippersnapper! You got it, but I'm betting raison won't agree with you, that you are in fact wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG!

Originally Posted by imcurious

Whatever works for you. I personally need a purpose and this one makes sense to me.

Again, thanks for your opinion, but that's certainly not a universally accepted position. I'd wager that you would agree that you probably function better with a stated "purpose", and that therefore you need one. FACT: I do not. And yet, 9) I'm a pleasant, generous and ethically upright citizen. Sorry, raison, to burst your bubble.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88

It seems to be this NEED for a purpose that planted the seeds for religion, afterlife, etc. etc. to begin with, IMO

Another blck-buster fact! Seriously! Wow! Youz just full of them, huh? I agree!

Originally Posted by imcurious

It is impossible to "believe in nothing." No one can comprehend "nothing," because there is no such thing as "nothing." Have an excellent night yourself!

You're taking it all out of context. This video tried to tell us that there is a purpose for life, and she told us what it is, with no questions asked, no other options possible, and assuming there is a God.

As an atheist, I don't believe in any God(z). That's all. I don't need one to explain things to me, nor to give my life purpose. That I find in other ways, or not at all. I don't believe in mythical clap-trap is all. And as a scientist, I also know there's an unlimited number of questions, which simply cannot be answered rationally by some faker wooden icon Gawd.

There! Get it now, imcurious? I hope so.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88

Sure, you can make it up as you go along. How many little boys say, "I want to be a fireman when I grow up" or a policeman, or doctor, or whatever. Thats them contemplating a purpose for their lives.

Did you go to college? If so, how did you decide on a major? That's you deciding on a purpose for your life.

How did you decide what career you would have? Maybe you wanted to do something that would make a difference? Thats you deciding what the purpose of your life is.

Bingo. More rep points if I could, Whippersnapper!! As to some mythical and vast spiritual purpose, that can be to simply enjoy what we've been provided with purely by chance. and with both eyes opened, not squeezed shut by the mandates, codes and strictures of some fake religion, whose purpose is to control the largest number of tithers ans servants with fear and guilt.

As a career biologist, (and a spiritually complex atheist one at that...) it's truly amazing to me that we got this far, and I also know how fragile our continued existence here in Earth really is, with no God(z) to save us if it all goes horribly wrong: pestilence, meteorite impact, war, greed. All these things have worked against us in the past, and will again.

Again, don't wait up for a magic Golden Ship to come save your hide.

[raison_d'etre]

Originally Posted by rifleman

Shallow? again, the ad hominems toward my thoughts. You are SO transparent, and shallow!

And so: you'de have this forum as a statement only format? As in: no open debate allowed? I've told you exactly why I found her absolute statements insincere (or alternately, truly arrogant and religio-centric) ans her presentation so appallingly out of touch.

That's my opinion; you obviously disagree. So be it: I'm not stopping you from posting your personal ideas, and this is NOT the Christian-Only sub, BTW! And you hardly kept them to yourself, now did you? Apparently, if you were king, all us atheists would be captured and herded to something like.. one of those camps Hitler the Catholic loved I'd suspect...

I also dislike the ongoing idea that, absent Christianty, we atheists must be ethically & morally bankrupt, functionally unpleasant and selfish, and totally without generosity, love or humanity.

I can say categorically that the expressive fundamentalist Christians I've met, so many of them, are sneeringly arrogant, assumptive about their being right about God, and without acceptance of any alternate viewpoints.

First, you do know that there are other religions besides Christian, Right? I have said many many times, that I am not a Christian. These types of beliefs are generally attacked by Christians as well as it would risk hurting their beliefs.

And no I don't want it to be a statement only forum. But, when someone isn't asking if it is real or not and is asking to know about a subject, there is not need for people to post remarks asking for proof of every claim. It is well known where you and many others stand on these topics, we get it... all too well... You will not rest until others believe the way you do. Just curious to know how this differs from Christian zealots? It doesn't. I am more than comfortable with people believing what they want as long as they leave me and mine alone. Don't degrade me because of what I believe and I won't do it to you. I think the term live and let live applies to religion perfectly.

Thank you, Whippersnapper! You got it, but I'm betting raison won't agree with you, that you are in fact wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG!

No, I don't disagree with Whippersnapper. We do decide what gives our life meaning. At this time in my life, I choose to find meaning in spiritual things.

Bingo. More rep points if I could, Whippersnapper!! As to some mythical and vast spiritual purpose, that can be to simply enjoy what we've been provided with purely by chance. and with both eyes opened, not squeezed shut by the mandates, codes and strictures of some fake religion, whose purpose is to control the largest number of tithers ans servants with fear and guilt.

As a career biologist, (and a spiritually complex atheist one at that...) it's truly amazing to me that we got this far, and I also know how fragile our continued existence here in Earth really is, with no God(z) to save us if it all goes horribly wrong: pestilence, meteorite impact, war, greed. All these things have worked against us in the past, and will again.

Again, don't wait up for a magic Golden Ship to come save your hide.

No Golden ship? Guess I can unpack now....

Sadly the greatest threat to humanity and this world is actually humanity.

I actually look at biology myself and consider myself lucky to be here. Because I have studied biology and the nature of being, I believe that nature has shown us that anything is possible.

[imcurious]

[quote=rifleman;21399878]Well OK, but it didn't resonate with me, because right off the bat, she "told" me what that purpose was, that in fact there IS a purpose (human-centered, BTW), which I dispute. Christians seem to NEED a reason for our being here, and they agonize over that question. Meantime, I'm saying there is no necessity, no true spiritual purpose.

Again, if you desperately need one, then by all means go for it, but it's not necessary for many of us. Just like there's absolutely no necessity to have ALL POSSIBLE QUESTIONS answered, because that requires a make-belief omnipotent God figure as an answerer of all questions, which is impossible on it's face!

Now, if she'd said "for those who insist on a meaning, here's my personal opinion...", but that's hardly what she assumptively said, is it?



Agreed Terryj: the true arrogance of Christianity is their continued or implied claim that "man shall have dominion over the lesser beasts... blah blah blah ...", and that we were made in His image (i.e.: perfection but with sin!)

What a crock! Especially since almost all of the so-called animal world pre-evolved us by at least a few million years, and they move in a world far more complete than ours, with senses we can only imagine.



Also agreed. Her ploy is to guilt us out, that we have to come back and atone. For what again? Especially since we can't remember our previous lives how would we do that? (esp. since such a prior life doesn't exist...)

Originally Posted by hurt_rflmn

Shallow? again, the ad hominems toward my thoughts. You are SO transparent, and shallow!

And so: you'de have this forum as a statement only format? As in: no open debate allowed? I've told you exactly why I found her absolute statements insincere (or alternately, truly arrogant and religio-centric) ans her presentation so appallingly out of touch.

That's my opinion; you obviously disagree. So be it: I'm not stopping you from posting your personal ideas, and this is NOT the Christian-Only sub, BTW! And you hardly kept them to yourself, now did you? Apparently, if you were king, all us atheists would be captured and herded to something like.. one of those camps Hitler the Catholic loved I'd suspect...

I also dislike the ongoing idea that, absent Christianty, we atheists must be ethically & morally bankrupt, functionally unpleasant and selfish, and totally without generosity, love or humanity.

I can say categorically that the expressive fundamentalist Christians I've met, so many of them, are sneeringly arrogant, assumptive about their being right about God, and without acceptance of any alternate viewpoints.

Now then, for the best durned post so far:



Thank you, Whippersnapper! You got it, but I'm betting raison won't agree with you, that you are in fact wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG!



Again, thanks for your opinion, but that's certainly not a universally accepted position. I'd wager that you would agree that you probably function better with a stated "purpose", and that therefore you need one. FACT: I do not. And yet, 9) I'm a pleasant, generous and ethically upright citizen. Sorry, raison, to burst your bubble.



Another blck-buster fact! Seriously! Wow! Youz just full of them, huh? I agree!



You're taking it all out of context. This video tried to tell us that there is a purpose for life, and she told us what it is, with no questions asked, no other options possible, and assuming there is a God.

As an atheist, I don't believe in any God(z). That's all. I don't need one to explain things to me, nor to give my life purpose. That I find in other ways, or not at all. I don't believe in mythical clap-trap is all. And as a scientist, I also know there's an unlimited number of questions, which simply cannot be answered rationally by some faker wooden icon Gawd.

There! Get it now, imcurious? I hope so.



Bingo. More rep points if I could, Whippersnapper!! As to some mythical and vast spiritual purpose, that can be to simply enjoy what we've been provided with purely by chance. and with both eyes opened, not squeezed shut by the mandates, codes and strictures of some fake religion, whose purpose is to control the largest number of tithers ans servants with fear and guilt.

As a career biologist, (and a spiritually complex atheist one at that...) it's truly amazing to me that we got this far, and I also know how fragile our continued existence here in Earth really is, with no God(z) to save us if it all goes horribly wrong: pestilence, meteorite impact, war, greed. All these things have worked against us in the past, and will again.

Again, don't wait up for a magic Golden Ship to come save your hide.

If you had broken your post down into sub-categories, I would have responded to some of your points, but as it is, it would be too overwhelming . . .like some kind of bizarre homework assignment, and I'm not up for that at the moment!

I will say that I am happy for you that you do not need a purpose for your life . . .since you are obviously a "thinking type," it is a little curious that you would leave such a huge subject without answers for yourself, but happy that it does not plague you in your daily life.

As to the issue of "nothingness," I do find it curious that people who are so clever and intelligent and complex, really, think that all of that and everything else in the world just randomly appeared and then will disappear into "nothingness." To me, that is just highly illogical and I wonder at the incentive to think such a thing (I personally wonder about traumas that might lead someone to be so closed off to at least logical possibilities).

And if someone is a biologist, I don't even know WHAT to think . . .to be in touch with life at that level - to study it, and then conclude it is basically meaningless, is just beyond my comprehension.

Last night, I went outside with my dog and sat on a bench at dusk and just looked up at the trees - the symmetry of the leaves and branches was stunning . . . then just contemplating the life . . . the bugs and the birds, ducks in the stream, the squirrels I feed . . .and my little beast jumped on my lap and it was just so amazing to think of the beauty and complexity of life that is around us . . .do you ever have such moments, and if so, what do you make of them?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by rifleman

Well OK, but it didn't resonate with me, because right off the bat, she "told" me what that purpose was, that in fact there IS a purpose (human-centered, BTW), which I dispute. Christians seem to NEED a reason for our being here, and they agonize over that question. Meantime, I'm saying there is no necessity, no true spiritual purpose.

I understand your abreaction to Christianity and religions in general, rifle. There are more than sufficient reasons for it. What there is NOT sufficient reason for is your blanket rejection of God or purpose. You clearly can accept that our remarkable (virtually Godly abilities) reflected in our consciousness and intelligence just "emerged" from their lack without the slightest support simply because there are things we can explain the emergence of from extant phenomena. You use the principle, not any actual processes or logic as justification. I have repeatedly requested logical syllogisms showing how your result is arrived at with no response.

Contrary to your opinion, life is NOT mere biochemical reactions of "non-life" components. Consciousness and intelligence are not mere biochemical reactions of "non-conscious" "non-intelligent" components. You have never acknowledged nor even indicated a sensitivity to the philosophical vacuousness of your position. That kind of ostrich-like behavior may be sufficient for your personal opinions, but stop throwing around your scientist credentials as if they make it more than just your opinion.