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Theists apparently believe that if someone (atheists) don't believe in their particular mythology, they must believe that everything came from nothing. As far as I'm concerned, this entire long thread is "much ado about nothing", a disingenuous ploy by imcurious to ridicule atheists, much like some of his/her other threads.
Theists apparently believe that if someone (atheists) don't believe in their particular mythology, they must believe that everything came from nothing. As far as I'm concerned, this entire long thread is "much ado about nothing", a disingeuous ploy by imcurious to ridicule atheists, much like some of his/her other threads.
I'm pretty sure Imcurious is a women, I cant imagine too many men who would write in that pink lettering. Hey, could be wrong though.
Yes yes, this is off-topic, but what IS the topic of this thread? Nothing, right?
Theists apparently believe that if someone (atheists) don't believe in their particular mythology, they must believe that everything came from nothing. As far as I'm concerned, this entire long thread is "much ado about nothing", a disingeuous ploy by imcurious to ridicule atheists, much like his/her other threads.
I have no idea how you draw your conclusions. Nowhere did I ridicule anyone.
It was a real curiosity for me. I think I laid out my premise pretty well in the OP . . .
I honestly had the opinion that atheists were more scientifically oriented than the average bear. I didn't realize the affiliation is more in reaction to theism as I do now.
I did not post this in the atheist section because that would have been baiting and I just wanted an honest discussion of this one aspect (i.e., the idea of "nothingness" in relationship to science).
Now I really grasp that most atheists (as demonstrated on this thread) REALLY only believe in the material existence - that the body is the end all and be all . . .I don't know why, but I didn't really realize that before . . .
When my father was dying, I asked him if he believed in an afterlife and he said, no, that he had seen too many dead animals to believe that. I was totally mystified by that comment, at the time, but subsequently had an idea that his beliefs must have been materialistic.
Now I understand the same of atheists, but I still don't understand how you can be a materialistic atheist AND still believe in Quantum Psychics or believe in electromagnetic fields or even electricity . . .
I could draft a whole bunch of questions around this but will spare everyone!
I have no idea how you draw your conclusions. Nowhere did I ridicule anyone.
It was a real curiosity for me. I think I laid out my premise pretty well in the OP . . .
I honestly had the opinion that atheists were more scientifically oriented than the average bear. I didn't realize the affiliation is more in reaction to theism as I do now.
I did not post this in the atheist section because that would have been baiting and I just wanted an honest discussion of this one aspect (i.e., the idea of "nothingness" in relationship to science).
Now I really grasp that most atheists (as demonstrated on this thread) REALLY only believe in the material existence - that the body is the end all and be all . . .I don't know why, but I didn't really realize that before . . .
When my father was dying, I asked him if he believed in an afterlife and he said, no, that he had seen too many dead animals to believe that. I was totally mystified by that comment, at the time, but subsequently had an idea that his beliefs must have been materialistic.
Now I understand the same of atheists, but I still don't understand how you can be a materialistic atheist AND still believe in Quantum Psychics or believe in electromagnetic fields or even electricity . . .
I could draft a whole bunch of questions around this but will spare everyone!
Have a nice evening.
I think it is fine to "agree to disagree."
It is indeed fine to "agree to disagree." Aside from killing each other in a futile effort to resolve our differences, we have no other option.
imcurious: You are conflating atheism with a particular definition of 'materialism'. I certainly don't think that quantum physics, electromagnetic fields or electricity are in any way supernatural (although I agree that quantum physics is definitely weird). Atheism simply means nonbelief in a god or gods, nothing more and nothing less. I may marvel at the way my ham radio can refract electromagnetic signals off layers of the ionosphere, but it's simply a manifestation of the 'wonders of nature'. It would seem like magic to an earlier age, and superstitious people might invent a religion to accompany the strange phenomenon.
For me it is a philosophical question. When I say I have done "no research," I meant, specifically, that I had not researched the question of "nothingness."
My presumption was that atheists, being aligned with science and rational thought, might find the issue of "nothingness" problematic. I also falsely thought that there might be the capacity for more open-minded discussion . . . I didn't realize the way I do now that affiliating as an atheist is a closed stance - one that has been decided and is final, despite any questions or problems with theory to the contrary.
Believe me when I say I am not trying to convert anyone - I don't have any real interest in what anyone believes or doesn't believe - my curiosity is of a more intellectual nature - I just like to draw natural conclusions and discuss things from a philosophical perspective.
I wouldn't go so far as to decare that the views of an atheist is necessarily a closed stance that is decided and final. That's a bit insulting to other people. Perhaps for some, but that's not necessarily all-inclusive. Many atheists I've encountered seem to be just as curious and open-minded as anyone else. Personally, I've never been all that crazy about labels. We're all people.
There's nothing wrong with drawing natural conclusions and discussing things from a philosophical perspective. However, the topic includes matters which are also scientific. You're the one who began this thread by also adding in quantum physics.
If a person is interested in the subject of "nothingness", or whether it is even meaningful, it helps to better understand the opposite side, especially when quantum physics and general relativity is included in the subject. It also helps to understand (which I think you do) that no one has all the answers to the Big Questions related to the universe. We are all a very limited and brief part of the universe, and are confined within it. That doesn't mean that curiosity isn't welcomed though. Whether right or wrong, answers have been provided, although perhaps not in line to your own point of view. What have you cited in the way of references to support your own view? I may not agree, but as I said earlier, I'd be very interested. If the support of your views provide enough compelling evidence, that would certainly provide food for thought. I'm sure others would be interested as well.
The difficulty behind your argument goes right back to the very first post, which starts out as more divisive rather than engaging and unifying. While your saying that you're not trying to convert anyone, and that you have no real interest in what anyone believes or doesn't believe, your first post seems to say something quite different:
Quote:
If you contribute to this thread, please state your affiliations/beliefs, re: religion or philosophy and then explain your point-of-view on the subject of "nothingness."
Do you see how that can be rather defeating from the get-go?
Theophane: Why must you insist on inserting the word 'material'?
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