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1. Please list the hard evidence for a super fine tuned Cosmos coming into existence by Nothing without a will or intellect . If its compelling, ill immediatly change back to proclaiming myself a born again atheist.
First of all there is nothing finely tuned about the universe...99.999% of it will kill you. Here is the evidence you've asked for, but it's up to you to read it... Evidence for the Big Bang
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2. No not exactly... im making this deduction : Every design requires a Designer which is a Person . The Universe (incl. Earth, our human anatomy,DNA, et al) shows intricate / detectable / measurable design and engineering. Therefore, there is an intelligent willful Designer to our Cosmos . We can call him God , Architect, or personal theistic Creator/Designer...as you wish.
This just not true, as you will see when you read the link I provided above.
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3. List the evidence that natural non intelligent Causes naturally brought first life into being in the form of a one celled Protozoan from non living raw chemicals when top atheist Scientists gives it a 1 in 10^40,000 th probability . This is the faith they calculate one must have, so, please list the evidence you have which would make it highly probable and thus counter their findings .
Do your own work, and compile your own list...The information is here... The Origin of Life
By the way it would save you much embarrassment if you stopped using apologetic sites for your information...
Before you reply, please keep this in mind...A basic tenet of both skeptical thinking and scientific inquiry is that beliefs can be wrong, it is often confusing and irritating to scientists and skeptics that so many people’s beliefs do not change in the face of disconfirming evidence. How, we wonder, are people able to hold beliefs that contradict the data?
YOU see intelligent design. I see natural forces at work on trillions (or more) of planets for millions of years. There is no detectable, measurable design and engineering. None.
Again, you maintain that supernatural causes are more likely than natural causes. Why? We have no evidence that supernatural causes EVEN EXIST. Therefore, however unlikely the natural causes might be, they are the logical choice over something we don't even know exists. I say the universe was created by a giant, purple, one-eyed unicorn, not "God". Show me evidence that "God" did it.
Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? You are, in essence, stating the same thing.
In order .....
1. I care to know what YOU believe , not published articles written by others as i read like articles on a continuous basis. What was the specific cause of the universe taking into account that the Universe had a definite beginning in time (ex nihilo) and what natural process or source was used in its establishment ?
2. Either you havent investigated the incredible scientifically detected design/engineering to our Cosmos needed for Earth to be precisely as it is so we can enjoy life, you dont really care to look into it, and/or you choose to suppress the knowledge of it that you have acquired . Even atheist Prof. Stephen Hawkings admits to its reality as does world reknown agnostic NASA scientist Dr. Robert Jastrow , and former atheist and nobel prize winner Prof. Alan Sandage .. one of the highest esteemed Discoverers in modern times.
3. Creationists agree to both natural causes and intelligent causes ...and so should the entire Scientific Community since discovery is based on ANY and ALL Causes for something have occured . I believe the Grand Canyon is an example of a natural cause ... a deluge of water continuously carving away at rock in a forward motion ; same for the canyon carved during the Mt. St. Helens final eruption (which by the way, occured in a time period of some 45 minutes and not millions of years) . There are other things that ONLY intelligent causes could possibly account for , and the examples are numerous such as the informational instructions (specified complexity) found in the DNA molecule or the Human Brain which intelligent experienced Medical Doctors cant duplicate ...yet we are to believe that blind random forces of nature did ?! . There isnt a reasonable rational person on Earth who has that much faith ; people are willing to pretend though based on personal ulterior motives known only to themselves.
4. Its not a case of 'God filling in the Gaps' ... rather, its a case of a Designer/Creator being absolutely necessary for things which no amount of naturalism could perform.
5. It is atheist wannabes who are the rediculous sounding Ones ; the faith required to be a real one far surpasses the simple logical faith required for Theism . Can u muster up faith equalling : 1 in 10^40,000 th probabilty for abiogenesis as calculated BY atheist scientists ?! This brings new meaning to the term incredulous , if you can and need to.
Lol, as I thought you would, you completely ignored the evidence I posted and continue to repeat the nonsense you read on ID sites...
I can say the same about you and Atheist sites . Ive had to whittle down my interaction in this thread to just Holligan since ive determined that you and the other regular contributor starting with the letter 'N' (?) , are too committed to not wanting to even entertain a personal intelligence for our Cosmos and all that we have . Its not that you cant , its that you WONT publicly admit to a superior intelligence at work (although you do inwardly since the faith required otherwise, is too incredulous for an atheistic worldview ... such as 1 in 10^40,000 th power for instance) . Im encouraged however, that Guru Dawkins has publicly attested to the need of superior intelligence for the ID he can readily detect for our cosmos.
So...you can contribute but dont expect me to throw pearl before swine (per a biblical scripture and not me calling you a pig !...lol...) .
1. I care to know what YOU believe , not published articles written by others as i read like articles on a continuous basis. What was the specific cause of the universe taking into account that the Universe had a definite beginning in time (ex nihilo) and what natural process or source was used in its establishment ?
I have no idea what caused the Big Bang, but I do not believe that NOTHING existed prior to the BB. I believe the BB was simply the beginning of spacetime as we know it today.
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Originally Posted by 007.5
2. Either you havent investigated the incredible scientifically detected design/engineering to our Cosmos needed for Earth to be precisely as it is so we can enjoy life, you dont really care to look into it, and/or you choose to suppress the knowledge of it that you have acquired . Even atheist Prof. Stephen Hawkings admits to its reality as does world reknown agnostic NASA scientist Dr. Robert Jastrow , and former atheist and nobel prize winner Prof. Alan Sandage .. one of the highest esteemed Discoverers in modern times.
Really? Renowned physicist and part time author Stephen Hawking has upset the apple cart of a few religious people this week by coming out in advance of the release of his new book and stating that the "Universe does not need God" to create it. Doesn't sound like Hawking puts much stock in ID to me. Care to explain that?
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Originally Posted by 007.5
3. Creationists agree to both natural causes and intelligent causes ...and so should the entire Scientific Community since discovery is based on ANY and ALL Causes for something have occured . I believe the Grand Canyon is an example of a natural cause ... a deluge of water continuously carving away at rock in a forward motion ; same for the canyon carved during the Mt. St. Helens final eruption (which by the way, occured in a time period of some 45 minutes and not millions of years) . There are other things that ONLY intelligent causes could possibly account for , and the examples are numerous such as the informational instructions (specified complexity) found in the DNA molecule or the Human Brain which intelligent experienced Medical Doctors cant duplicate ...yet we are to believe that blind random forces of nature did ?! . There isnt a reasonable rational person on Earth who has that much faith ; people are willing to pretend though based on personal ulterior motives known only to themselves.
It isn't faith to default to natural explainations in the lack of ANY evidence of supernatural reasons.
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Originally Posted by 007.5
4. Its not a case of 'God filling in the Gaps' ... rather, its a case of a Designer/Creator being absolutely necessary for things which no amount of naturalism could perform.
Who says "no amount of naturalism" could perform these "things" and what are these "things", specifically?
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Originally Posted by 007.5
5. It is atheist wannabes who are the rediculous sounding Ones ; the faith required to be a real one far surpasses the simple logical faith required for Theism . Can u muster up faith equalling : 1 in 10^40,000 th probabilty for abiogenesis as calculated BY atheist scientists ?! This brings new meaning to the term incredulous , if you can and need to.
And what are the odds of "God" doing it? Please show us how you came to figure those odds, as well. Again, you're making my point! At least we CAN figure the odds of the natural cause. How do you calculate the odds of something that we don't know exists causing something else? This should be good....
I can say the same about you and Atheist sites . Ive had to whittle down my interaction in this thread to just Holligan since ive determined that you and the other regular contributor starting with the letter 'N' (?) , are too committed to not wanting to even entertain a personal intelligence for our Cosmos and all that we have . Its not that you cant , its that you WONT publicly admit to a superior intelligence at work (although you do inwardly since the faith required otherwise, is too incredulous for an atheistic worldview ... such as 1 in 10^40,000 th power for instance) . Im encouraged however, that Guru Dawkins has publicly attested to the need of superior intelligence for the ID he can readily detect for our cosmos.
So...you can contribute but dont expect me to throw pearl before swine (per a biblical scripture and not me calling you a pig !...lol...) .
I see, in your mind anything that is not a creationist site is atheist, is that it?
I have no idea what caused the Big Bang, but I do not believe that NOTHING existed prior to the BB. I believe the BB was simply the beginning of spacetime as we know it today.
Really? Renowned physicist and part time author Stephen Hawking has upset the apple cart of a few religious people this week by coming out in advance of the release of his new book and stating that the "Universe does not need God" to create it. Doesn't sound like Hawking puts much stock in ID to me. Care to explain that?
It isn't faith to default to natural explainations in the lack of ANY evidence of supernatural reasons.
Who says "no amount of naturalism" could perform these "things" and what are these "things", specifically?
And what are the odds of "God" doing it? Please show us how you came to figure those odds, as well. Again, you're making my point! At least we CAN figure the odds of the natural cause. How do you calculate the odds of something that we don't know exists causing something else? This should be good....
Its difficult dialoguing with you too , because you havent educated yourself with the scientific evidences for ID nor wish to . Some of your replies lack a good substantial knowledge of the cosmological evidences , the quotes by Hawkings where he references ID and an Architect, etc..., and your need to have everything be a natural non intelligent cause even for the most complex things in the universe such as the human brain. Im afraid that youve chosen to dupe yourself and have rounded up information by others who want to be willfully duped as well. As for the odds of abiogenesis , its not I that figured the absurd probability of 1 in 10^40,000 th chance by naturalism ... it was atheist scientists Hoyle and Wicksramasinghe with the cofounder of the DNA structure ( world reknown atheist biologist Dr. Francis Crick) affirming their calculation. Do a google if you are REALLY interested .. which as a staunch 'atheist' is akin to a Thief looking to have a cup of coffee at Starbucks with a local Law Enforcement Officer ! In other words ; ZIPola .
And now, this will conclude our dialogue in addition to the other willfully blinded colleagues in this thread.
Its difficult dialoguing with you too , because you havent educated yourself with the scientific evidences for ID nor wish to . Some of your replies lack a good substantial knowledge of the cosmological evidences , the quotes by Hawkings where he references ID and an Architect, etc..., and your need to have everything be a natural non intelligent cause even for the most complex things in the universe such as the human brain. Im afraid that youve chosen to dupe yourself and have rounded up information by others who want to be willfully duped as well. As for the odds of abiogenesis , its not I that figured the absurd probability of 1 in 10^40,000 th chance by naturalism ... it was atheist scientists Hoyle and Wicksramasinghe with the cofounder of the DNA structure ( world reknown atheist biologist Dr. Francis Crick) affirming their calculation. Do a google if you are REALLY interested .. which as a staunch 'atheist' is akin to a Thief looking to have a cup of coffee at Starbucks with a local Law Enforcement Officer ! In other words ; ZIPola .
And now, this will conclude our dialogue in addition to the other willfully blinded colleagues in this thread.
A basic tenet of both skeptical thinking and scientific inquiry is that beliefs can be wrong, it is often confusing and irritating to scientists and skeptics that so many people’s beliefs do not change in the face of disconfirming evidence. How, we wonder, are people able to hold beliefs that contradict the data?
I can say the same about you and Atheist sites . Ive had to whittle down my interaction in this thread to just Holligan since ive determined that you and the other regular contributor starting with the letter 'N' (?) , are too committed to not wanting to even entertain a personal intelligence for our Cosmos and all that we have .
I would entertain it if you would provide scientific evidence rather than debunked-a-thousand-times nonsense from creationist websites. Give me ONE peer-reviewed scholarly article that suggests creationism . . . just ONE. You can't, because such articles do not exist.
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Its not that you cant , its that you WONT publicly admit to a superior intelligence at work (although you do inwardly since the faith required otherwise, is too incredulous for an atheistic worldview ... such as 1 in 10^40,000 th power for instance) .
More judgmental nonsense. Besides, Hoyle's fallacy has been demonstrated false, so why do you continue to bring it up?
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Im encouraged however, that Guru Dawkins has publicly attested to the need of superior intelligence for the ID he can readily detect for our cosmos.
Dawkins has said no such thing. Stop putting words in the mouths of your opponents.
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So...you can contribute but dont expect me to throw pearl before swine (per a biblical scripture and not me calling you a pig !...lol...) .
007.5 is being very egotistical to think he/she is the first to bring up all the crap he has been and thinking we're simply ignoring it when the fact is we (all or most) of us have heard it all before, studied it, pondered it and dismissed it.
In this case, some of it is even worse crap that many preach and wasn't even worth pondering.
Borrowing the above....oink
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