Judaism/Christian Challenge (hell, America, myth, prophecy)

[ibcwife]

Originally Posted by Ilovejazz

Not really. Imagine this; you take a book in English -- any book. Now, translate that book into Arabic. Now, take that Arabic translation and translate it into Russian. Now, ask someone who speaks both English and Russian fluently to compare the translations. No matter how experienced the translators are, the versions are going to read differently. So, it isn't just a point of different interpretations of the exact same text. The two fields -- Torah in Hebrew and the first five books of the 'Old Testament' -- are not even to begin with and do not read exactly the same.

I am a Christian who worships God the Father... The God of the bible/Torah. I worship him thru His Son which is also fully God and fully man. I am worshiping God. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

[Ilovejazz]

Originally Posted by ibcwife

I worship him thru His Son

That's perfectly your right, and I don't know many who would argue that you shouldn't have religious freedom. However, you are worshipping in a way that the Torah says is breaking Hashem's commandment. That's why you're not Jewish and are not in any way, following a Jewish way of life. And there's nothing wrong with that; however, please do not be deluded to think that going through an intermediary is in any Jewish.

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by ibcwife

I am a Christian who worships God the Father... The God of the bible/Torah. I worship him thru His Son which is also fully God and fully man. I am worshiping God. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

This is why there is confusion between Christianity and Judaism. Jews believe that the messiah is supposed to be a great leader like Moses. G-d again in the old testament many time tell us that only you can be accountable for your own sins no one else. g-d again states he will not take a human form so why again do people still believe that they need Jesus?
If g-d stated he would forgive your sins if you go to him directly in the Old Testament what is the purpose of believing in something that you do not need. That is why Jews do not believe in a messiah as g-d.

So What I am trying to say is if you follow g-ds commandment in the torah/old testament he will bless you and give you an after life with your kingsmen. You do not need anyone else because he makes that clear. He did not claim that messiah and him are one in the same.

[sun queen]

Originally Posted by shibainu

I will look into that, but doesn't the New Testament break g-d instruction to never add to what g-d says in the Old Testament.

I don't think the N.T. is adding to God's Word...it completes God's word. The words of the N.T. are based on that of the old

[sun queen]

Originally Posted by Ilovejazz

I'm sure this is what many Christians believe, to validate their beliefs. But your statement demonstrates how little of Judaism you actually know.





Because he doesn't begin to fulfill the role of Messiah.

Messiah Wanted!

Please read the above if you really want the Jewish perspective on messiah. You don't have to believe it (and you won't), but it tells why no man on earth has ever fulfilled the role.

These questions are now becoming repetitive. I'll part with this: if someone really, sincerely wants to learn about Judaism, then learn from a traditional orthodox source. There will be many people claiming to be experts on Judaism and why Christianity somehow fulfills Judaism. It makes no sense to turn to one religion about aspects of another religion. If you want to know about Buddhism, ask a traditional Buddhist, not someone of another religion!

Same with Judaism. Don't accept a twisted version from someone who is not Jewish or does not know Hebrew. Ask a learned person. Take your concerns to a rabbi, not a priest or preacher. The latter will tell you want you want to hear, not necessarily what Torah really states.

Shalom.

Christianity does not need to be validated. It is the truth of GOD who loved people so much HE sent HIS only begotten SON to redeem all men from sin so that whoever believes in HIM -Jesus the Christ/ Anointed One/ Yeshua Mashiach shall not perish, but have eternal life. Christianity is real and there is nothing you can do, say or believe to invalidate it. It is not some religious fad. It has stood the test of time and continues to thrive in the world especially in Israel and among Jews in every nation. Heaven and earth may pass away, but GOD'S WORD will stand...and so will the Christian belief that is founded upon and not seperate from HIS WORD. Maybe it is you who knows very little about true Judaism...Jesus the Christ did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. HE accomplished HIS purpose and now is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will return and all will know HE is the ONE TRUE MESSIAH Your belief does not demininsh the Truth or the reality of Jesus the Christ. HE is ALL and any quest to deny HIM is in futile. Shalom

[Ilovejazz]

Originally Posted by sun queen

It is the truth of GOD who loved people so much HE sent HIS only begotten SON to redeem all men from sin so that whoever believes in HIM -Jesus the Christ/ Anointed One/ Yeshua Mashiach shall not perish, but have eternal life.

This is why Christians are often not taken seriously in discussions on religions. You present your "beliefs" (and that's all they are) are the absolute truth. You have no room to question your religion or robotic beliefs at all. There's nothing intellectual about Christianity; it's about as fulfilling as believing in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus.

It's when you're so blind that you can't tell a difference -- between beliefs and facts -- that make Christianity appear invalid. I can tell you about Jewish history and why we do what we do, but I don't parade it as the ultimate truth to everyone. The only reason Christianity has stood the "test of time" is through violent forced conversions, most of which many Christians are wholly ignorant.

PS -- I gave you a link stating why your messiah does not begin to fulfill the requirements of thet messiah mentioned in the Torah, and you refused to comment on it, choosing instead to regurgitate your mantra that your messiah is the Jewish one (although evidence is completely to the contrary). And it appears that's all you need in life -- turn on your autopilot statement about bee-leaving. Evidently, that works for the masses.

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by sun queen

Christianity does not need to be validated. It is the truth of GOD who loved people so much HE sent HIS only begotten SON to redeem all men from sin so that whoever believes in HIM -Jesus the Christ/ Anointed One/ Yeshua Mashiach shall not perish, but have eternal life. Christianity is real and there is nothing you can do, say or believe to invalidate it. It is not some religious fad. It has stood the test of time and continues to thrive in the world especially in Israel and among Jews in every nation. Heaven and earth may pass away, but GOD'S WORD will stand...and so will the Christian belief that is founded upon and not seperate from HIS WORD. Maybe it is you who knows very little about true Judaism...Jesus the Christ did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. HE accomplished HIS purpose and now is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will return and all will know HE is the ONE TRUE MESSIAH Your belief does not demininsh the Truth or the reality of Jesus the Christ. HE is ALL and any quest to deny HIM is in futile. Shalom

My question is Judaism came before Christianity and they knew the laws that g-d wrote. So how could you be so sure you’re interpreting the bible correctly if the first people that were given it follow it differently? So you’re saying the people that were given the original text have no clue to what there talking about.
It is like going to school to learn math. The professor teaches you the step by step instruction to get the correct answer. But you are the student and you do not follow all the steps. Do you believe that you will get the correct answer?

Again prove to me in the Old Testament g-d told his people a man-g-d was going to redeem his people. And from what? G-d already told his people that if you go to him directly your sins will be forgiven.

If g-d is pure and perfect than why does the New Testament contradicts itself if it is from the same g-d of the torah?

[irishmom]

Originally Posted by shibainu

My question is Judaism came before Christianity and they knew the laws that g-d wrote. So how could you be so sure you’re interpreting the bible correctly if the first people that were given it follow it differently? So you’re saying the people that were given the original text have no clue to what there talking about.
It is like going to school to learn math. The professor teaches you the step by step instruction to get the correct answer. But you are the student and you do not follow all the steps. Do you believe that you will get the correct answer?

Again prove to me in the Old Testament g-d told his people a man-g-d was going to redeem his people. And from what? G-d already told his people that if you go to him directly your sins will be forgiven.

If g-d is pure and perfect than why does the New Testament contradicts itself if it is from the same g-d of the torah?

I guess I don't understand what you are saying or maybe why. Yes Judaism came prior to Christianity and Islam...yet both trace their history back to the same point...God the Father. But at some point in time something occured that was interpreted by some as truth and by some as not so these groups went on their separate paths. This is how all religions are formed and how denominations within religions are formed. Even in Judaism there are different beliefs amonst groups...reformed don't follow Jewish Dietary Law and Orthodox do. So obviously for some reason they are interpreting the same instructions differently....how is that any different than Christians believing that Jesus was the savior and Jews believing he wasn't? When people started to follow Christ, He explained who He was and why He came...you either believe that or you don't. He explained why the Old Testament isn't wrong, but why God chose to fullfill the prophesies the way He did, either you believe that or you don't. But believing one way doesn't invalidate how another group believes...faith is faith and there is no need to validate it. People interpret events differently that's all there is to it. Yes one is wrong and one is right but there is no proof that can be used to determine which one is correct. You can't prove the Torah as fact anymore than we can prove the New Testament as fact. So you believe what you want and we will believe what we want. What's the problem with that?

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by irishmom

I guess I don't understand what you are saying or maybe why. Yes Judaism came prior to Christianity and Islam...yet both trace their history back to the same point...God the Father. But at some point in time something occured that was interpreted by some as truth and by some as not so these groups went on their separate paths. This is how all religions are formed and how denominations within religions are formed. Even in Judaism there are different beliefs amonst groups...reformed don't follow Jewish Dietary Law and Orthodox do. So obviously for some reason they are interpreting the same instructions differently....how is that any different than Christians believing that Jesus was the savior and Jews believing he wasn't? When people started to follow Christ, He explained who He was and why He came...you either believe that or you don't. He explained why the Old Testament isn't wrong, but why God chose to fullfill the prophesies the way He did, either you believe that or you don't. But believing one way doesn't invalidate how another group believes...faith is faith and there is no need to validate it. People interpret events differently that's all there is to it. Yes one is wrong and one is right but there is no proof that can be used to determine which one is correct. You can't prove the Torah as fact anymore than we can prove the New Testament as fact. So you believe what you want and we will believe what we want. What's the problem with that?

Well their is proof that Christianity is not truly what people believe. Most people are deceived and don't understand there true Christian ties. Most Christians have a hard time keeping to their faith and the question it a lot because if it were truly correct they would not have to question it.
I understand that all religions have different sects. Christianity has anywhere of 10,000 to a 100,000 different sects. But the critical thing I was looking at is why Christians do not ever wonder why Jews have different practices. I find it very odd that Judaism was created before Christianity but the Christians took the Jewish messiah to mean something totally different for them. Why didn't the Christians just create their own separate g-d? Why did they need to use the Jewish messiah? Which the Jews never believed he was a g-d.
I understand that their is a claim that the original Christians were Jews but there is no historical evidence that I have heard of but I could be wrong.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by shibainu

I understand that their is a claim that the original Christians were Jews but there is no historical evidence that I have heard of but I could be wrong.

So let me get this straight, you don't think Matthew, Mark,Luke, John, Jesus or Paul were Jews??

And you are looking for Truth?

Answers?

If you won't believe that, I doubt you'll believe anything.