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True, but what I am really saying is much more basic than even that.
What I am saying is that the apostle Paul was a Pharisee. Not some rambling non-religious guy looking to invent some religion. He was Jewish and points the world squarely to Jesus. His favorite past-time before his conversion was persecuting Christians.
My point is this:
The thread's OP is making an argument that Jews should know more about the OT and the coming Messiah than anyone else. I'm in complete agreement and base my beliefs on the teachings and accounts handed down by Jewish writers.
That's what I am really trying to say.....
Exactly what I was thinking. Paul was Jewish.
Corinthians 9:20-22: To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law -- though not being myself under the law -- that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law -- not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ -- that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak.
All this means is that when he is witnessing to people, he will make the message relevant to where they are.
Corinthians 9:20-22: To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law -- though not being myself under the law -- that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law -- not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ -- that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak.
So Paul was the first marketing executive in history!
All of the early Christians, the folks that new Christ, even Christ Himself....we're Jewish.
So, they really should have known better than to start a new religion and begin to worship a human, as opposed to the Creator. Al Capone was a Jew, too! Unfortunately, not all Jews are Torah observant.
Quote:
So Christians didn't 'invent' Christianity based on mistranslations. We're following in the footsteps of our Jewish fore-fathers.
No, Abraham was against worshipping humans or idols of any kind. The early Christians took what part of the Torah appealed to them and ignored the rest.
Corinthians 9:20-22: To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law -- though not being myself under the law -- that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law -- not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ -- that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak.
All this means is that when he is witnessing to people, he will make the message relevant to where they are.
why did he need to win the jews if they have similar beliefs?
So, they really should have known better than to start a new religion and begin to worship a human, as opposed to the Creator. Al Capone was a Jew, too! Unfortunately, not all Jews are Torah observant.
Maybe, but all Jews are Jews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovejazz
No, Abraham was against worshipping humans or idols of any kind. The early Christians took what part of the Torah appealed to them and ignored the rest.
Maybe, but, again, they were still Jews.
Not arguing the fact that Jewish people don't accept Christ, His divinity, and His Lordship, just staying OnTopic and stating the fact that Christianity was founded by Jews.
Whether they were 'good Jews' or 'bad Jews' is a bit like calling someone a 'true' Christian, isn't it?
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibainu
Both religions use the old testament/torah/tanakh. Has anyone ever wonder why the Jews believe some thing total different than the Christians. If Judaism is where the Old Testament gets it origins from I would believe they would have a better interpretation than a Christian.
Jesus, himself, addressed this issue. He said his sheep hear his voice. The reason the religious leaders (and other Jewish people) didn't recognize him was that their hearts didn't belong to G-d. If they had truly known YHWH, then they would have known/recognized him (Jesus). However, the Pharisees and others were following a religion G-d had established but one that man had badly distorted. (Most of Christianity does the same today!) Instead of following the G-d of the Old Testament/Torah, the people were following religious leaders whose hearts were far from G-d. Rather than listening to G-d's truth, they were listening to doctrines of man. Therefore, most did not recognize Jesus because they didn't truly love and follow G-d and because the religious leaders told them not to.
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shibainu: If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.
You are absolutely correct! No one has fulfilled all the conditions associated with Messiah, not even Jesus! However, Christians believe Jesus met the conditions of the suffering servant when he walked the earth 2000 years ago and will fulfill the conditions of the conquering hero that rules with iron when he returns. The Jews of 2000 years ago were looking for the same thing the Jews of today are looking for--a conquering hero who will defeat their enemies, establish peace, and rule with justice. Today's Jews won't be disappointed! They weren't/aren't, however, looking for a suffering servant who would be beaten and killed, one who would conquer death (also criteria the Messiah should fulfill). That didn't/doesn't fit with their image of who Messiah should be. Christians believe when Jesus returns, he will be the Messiah the Jewish people are anxiously awaiting; however the "new" Messiah also won't fulfill all the conditions at some future date because he (Jesus) fulfilled some of the conditions 2000 years ago.
How many times did Christ Himself admonish Scribes and Pharisees? These were the law teachers. Because God's laws were made to show that no man (except for the perfect Lamb of God) could uphold the laws. The Scribes and Pharisees wanted to show how "good" they were by keeping it themselves, so they changed the law so that they would be able to do that. God created the law to show the need for a Savior. CHRIST The Son of God.. who is God Himself not just a mere man..
Romans2:12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under F29 the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
The Jew Is Condemned by the Law
17 But if you bear the name "Jew" and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law theembodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For "THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU," just as it is written.
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, yourcircumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he Rs not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
All the holy rollers are posting now...this is gonna get good!
(Sorry but no one laughed at my Paul joke so I thought I'd try again.)
P.S. - You know you the last three posts (holy roller reference) are from people I actually like right? Just making sure. Smoooches!
I'm kinda more of a holy limper, irishmom.
And do you always have to make such an entrance into church?? Some of us actually try to get there on time!!!
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