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Well technically and legally we do, because spelled out in our constitution, the only authority by which we all must live, to which all our laws and statutes are designed, no laws can be passed which interfere with anyone's religious freedom or celebration. Of course if someone's religion involves breaking the law, such as killing someone or sexually abusing children, well, that is a different issue. But the premise is that we can all choose how to worship or not to worship.
That being said, my old lady says that I am a Hypocrite because I rail against the evils of organized religion throughout the year then go at Christmas season and sit quietly and enjoy myself at an episcopal mass (or whatever else I choose to attend). My response was that in America I have the right and freedom to be a hypocrite. (Of course that went over as well as anything I say around here ) ......
That being said, the bottom line here is that religious people and religious groups are the ones who have an issue with religious freedom whenever it does not benefit them. Kind of like the Banking industry seeking legislation against the credit union industry. Or the Ford dealer badmouthing Toyota. The Competition, the competative drive that keeps our nation going, extends to all levels of society. even religions. A church for example, that has empty seats and empty coffers will not stay in business long.
I have people every year saying "OH OH you can't go to A Christmas service because the Bible says so" Or some variation of that.
Of course, since I don't live by the bible, since I do not believe in it, it does not apply to me and I am not bound by it. PERHAPS This is true religous freedom...not being bound by someone elses doctrines or beliefs.
but it amazes me how the only people who would step up and try to influence someone elses religion are those who put religion over nation, who claim to be Christian first and American second. Something to which I cannot really relate but to each their own. These are the first people who have told me throughout life that America would be better off as a theocracy. Of course, they want themselves to be the head of said theocracy. SO anyway......
now if you will excuse me, I have to go get in the Toyota and get going....
No, we do not have freedom of religion, or more accurately, freedom from religion. We atheists and non-religious have religion shoved down our throats, often on a daily basis.
For example, this time of year, I can't leave my apartment without hearing obviously Christian Christmas music blaring from the speakers at stores, on the radio, and even at (secular) universities.
The major Christian holidays (Christmas, Easter) are STATE and FEDERAL holidays, which basically amounts to a government endorsement of Christianity. Why doesn't the government recognize, for instance, Eid-al-Fitr or Rosh Hashanah? Because of religious bias.
People of various faiths get invited to university events, conferences, and talks to provide a "moral perspective," but atheists do not, as if atheists are somehow not qualified to speak on morality.
Workplaces provide the religious with their religious holidays off, while atheists get no such concession.
"God" is on our (United States) money and in our pledge of allegiance.
In my opinion, freedom from religion is every bit as important as freedom of religion. Spirituality / religiosity should be a personal and private matter, not something shouted from the rooftops or blared over loudspeakers. Your rights to practice your religion cannot interfere with my rights to be free from religion.
I guess we do have Freedom of religion, provided our religion is in agreement with Christianity. On paper us non-Christians have freedom, in practice we can not be open about anything that appears non-Christian. There is a public stigma towards the words "Non-Christian". We are automatic targets for evangelists who come to educate and save us. We face scorn and are often seen as intruders, not safe to be left alone around puppy dogs, kittens or children. Because we are not Christian it carries an implication we must be immoral, stupid, hostile, anti-American, Terrorist and hate the girl next door, along with hating Mom's apple pie.
As an Atheist who loves our American culture, I am qualified to say that we definitely have freedom of religion in our wonderful country.
Sounds like someone needs more freedom from "my old lady".
I'm sure the people that are being effected today by the religious ignorance written into laws of the state they live in might have a different take on your view.
We have laws on the books and enforced today that are as archaic and ignorant as the segregation of the past. I am old enough to remember seeing "Colored Only" and "Whites Only" signs on drinking fountains, waiting rooms at the bus or train station, or the "Colored to the rear" as you got on any city bus.
The same segregation of rights is actually growing based on religion in this country today, and it is nothing to be proud of. We just don't have the signs "gays only" or "straight only" but that doesn't mean that people aren't being treated with the same ignorance and bigotry of religion today.
We can choose which church to attend, which religion to identify with, or not, but we are absolutely NOT free from the hate and ignorance of religion, which seems to be growing.
I understand what your lady is saying, but since you’re NOT trying to serve God…it doesn’t matter. So understand I’m not posting scriptures to you, because you don’t “live by the bible†but as a servant I have to post them, because there are many who’s truly seeking. And God wants us to NOT just say his word, but show it. You’re right, you are free not only by the government to see religion as you choose to see it. Also you’re not the one who’ll be looked at as a “Hypocriteâ€
many believers will and are! For those who refuse to follow Jesus teachings of his Father’s will, fine! But for those who claim to be following Jesus, yet is following the world, (1John 2:15,16- Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world), it’s not!
When Jehovah speaks to his people about the do’s and don’ts. And when Jesus speaks the words of his Father, concerning the do’s and don’ts. They’re doing just that, trying to keep those people on the straight and narrow. God and his son already know many won’t serve him ,(Psa.[SIZE=2][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]14:1-The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good). those who loves doing wrong, of course would say, there’s no God. though there are those who claim to love God, and is doing wrong.
Many wants to believe just ANY ole man wrote down their own words, then say it’s of God. Yes!.. God did have men write down HIS words. But he did it for those who willing to serve him, and wants the truth. ([/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=3]1Thess.2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe). A true “christian shouldn’t celebrate Christmas, because JESUS, never taught his followers to do so, MAN DID! [/SIZE]
Jesus said to remember his death, because it had more meaning to him being here. Yet many do it because “it’s the meaning of it†ok!… my question is…why the santa, reindeers, x-mas trees?, so they think that’s OK in Jesus, NOT to mention Jehovah God eyes? Many say it’s for the “kids†sad!, because it’s also for themselves! I stopped doing x-mas when my youngest was about 3, she’s now 18. It was mostly because I felt I try hard to teach my kids NOT to lie, yet I was lying when I said “santa brings them things.
Then pride kicked in…why…would I want my kids to think some strange man delivers gifts to kids. All over the earth, in a 24 hour period? If that didn’t get me, it was also the fact that many kids believe in “santa†so much. That they would ask for their parent or sibling who’s…Gone to Heaven†yet man’s santa can produce that gift. This is why I stopped that lie, and begin to get my kids something they wanted monthly. I knew I was doing the right thing anyway. But what really validate me doing right by them.
Was when each school child came to me talking about the convo they had with their classmate concerning x-max and toys/gifts. They said they get stuff..†all the time, we don‘t have to wait until x-mas†the kids then saying…â€I wish I had your mother†I don’t choose to follow the world in order to NOT be look down at, (I never really cared). And definitely NOT to be a part of satan world. IF I say I want to follow all God’s law, the ones that’s easy to rid myself of, I will. The harder ones, I pray for help, then put up a fight.
Jesus said…(Matt.7:22,23- Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity). many “believers†knows the many things they’re doing is an abomination, or a lie to God. Yet they do it, trying to justify to themselves their actions. Many can play stupid, but Jehovah God isn’t a joke ,(Gal.6:7 -Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap).
Someone said vote for this pres, because he’s black, even if you don’t know his plans,…sad!, and it’s “our†time. Well first, he’s bi-racial, so get it right. I have nothing against that because I have two beautiful grandbabies, and one on the way…thank you! And secondly, my time will come if Jehovah see fit for me to make it! But even if he was 100% black, that’s STILL no reason to vote, NOW many hate they voted him in. well that’s what you get for looking a his color. So don’t go crying now, deal with it.
I don’t!…put your government first, never did, even before I knew of a God. Because I never trust easily, and I surly never believe in anyone who wanted to rule a country. Even as a teen I knew people would say ALL they needed to say, in order to get what they wanted. Leaders are No exceptions! As a servant I have no problem NOT trusting in a man-made government. Sorry, but for ALL those who hates me, because I don’t trust their government. I hope if ever another threat of attack is made to ones, (speaking in general),country. that leader has plans to move all it’s residents to an underground shelter. Which I doubt that would happen, Since it’s always about saving the leader and their families.
And for “religious freedom†I don’t choose to do as many, which I do agree with you on that. I’ve seen and know of many “Christiansâ€, (especially in religious forums), who hates homosexuals. coming down hard on them, saying they’re going to hell, (not even willing to find out how that word originated). Yet many are adulterers and fornicators, believing they have a first class ticket to heaven, Little do they know! So I don’t act as though I’m sitting right next to God. Knowing I will follow his word unless it’s something I want to do. This is why I come down even harder on myself, than the unbelievers. I feel if we claim to serve God and follow his son, we need to try hard to follow 1John. peace
Well JoJo that is some interesting statements you made but again that is all "religion" ...a "Religion's" definition of God, of what "God's word" is or should be...etc Something to which I do not subscribe.....
Consider this. I do not believe in Heaven or Hell in some afterlife....so attending or not attending or having a right or wrong reason for attending said gathering does not impact my destiny to some non-existant place.
As for attending, I would go to a concert if an artist I like came into town. I would go to a lecture by someone like Bishop Spong or Richard Dawkins if one were nearby, or if some play or performance of Shakespeare were happening, I'd probably be there too.
I went to an NFL game last week, why? because I wanted to .
Same thing with today. because I wanted to.
Unless a priest or hired employee of said organization comes up and says "Here don't come in here" then I am free to go and leave whenever I want.
Plain and simple, that is freedom. I do not have to subscribe to the legalism of some religion. Or be the victim of it.
No, we do not have freedom of religion, or more accurately, freedom from religion. We atheists and non-religious have religion shoved down our throats, often on a daily basis.
For example, this time of year, I can't leave my apartment without hearing obviously Christian Christmas music blaring from the speakers at stores, on the radio, and even at (secular) universities.
Sorry but no. This is like saying I have Justin Bieber shoved down my throat all the time, because I don't like Justin Bieber music.
Quote:
The major Christian holidays (Christmas, Easter) are STATE and FEDERAL holidays, which basically amounts to a government endorsement of Christianity. Why doesn't the government recognize, for instance, Eid-al-Fitr or Rosh Hashanah? Because of religious bias.
It is becuase the majority of people working there are Christian.
Quote:
People of various faiths get invited to university events, conferences, and talks to provide a "moral perspective," but atheists do not, as if atheists are somehow not qualified to speak on morality.
What you say is sad, but true. Atheists are just as qualified if not more qualified to speak on such a thing because they do not pick sides when it comes to morality. They don't base it off of something they personally believe.
Quote:
Workplaces provide the religious with their religious holidays off, while atheists get no such concession.
Atheism isn't a religious standing. If you said you wanted a religious holiday off, you should get it off.
Quote:
"God" is on our (United States) money and in our pledge of allegiance.
And it shouldn't be.
Quote:
In my opinion, freedom from religion is every bit as important as freedom of religion. Spirituality / religiosity should be a personal and private matter, not something shouted from the rooftops or blared over loudspeakers. Your rights to practice your religion cannot interfere with my rights to be free from religion.
[/quote] Freedom of religion is only freedom of persecution because of religion. How do you not see this as the same argument that some theists make in regards to homosexuality. "Keep it private because I don't like it..." It's persecution and segregation at it's finest.
I'm sure the people that are being effected today by the religious ignorance written into laws of the state they live in might have a different take on your view.
We have laws on the books and enforced today that are as archaic and ignorant as the segregation of the past. I am old enough to remember seeing "Colored Only" and "Whites Only" signs on drinking fountains, waiting rooms at the bus or train station, or the "Colored to the rear" as you got on any city bus.
The same segregation of rights is actually growing based on religion in this country today, and it is nothing to be proud of. We just don't have the signs "gays only" or "straight only" but that doesn't mean that people aren't being treated with the same ignorance and bigotry of religion today.
We can choose which church to attend, which religion to identify with, or not, but we are absolutely NOT free from the hate and ignorance of religion, which seems to be growing.
So, hate and ignorance is fine as long as it isn't religious hate and ignorance? Religion isn't the problem hate and ignorance is the problem. You do realize that people can get religious about hating religion right?
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