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You should PM board member Ilene Wright - she has been going through a very similar experience that you have been, and she might have some good bits of information for you.
I'd say just keep on the path you're on now: seek answers, and don't get bogged down in trying to come up with a label for yourself.
Thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
Hey Jamie, I remember you! You're probably considered an agnostic like me now, or a deist. I don't claim Christianity any longer because of my disbelief in the Bible. If you remember, I was a very staunch fundamentalist at one time. I sure can't give any advice because I'm still pretty confused myself but I agree we can't worship something we don't believe in simply out of fear. That's how we got in this mess in the first place!!
ETA: You might remember me better as DayoftheLord. <sigh>
Ilene! I was reading other posts, and came across one of yours, and thought, wait a minute!! Wasn't she even more "staunch" than I was? I do remember you, and I think it's great that someone else is going through exactly what I am. I look forward to talking with you more.
Welcome back! I don't know how useful labels are anyway, especially when it comes to a unique collection of beliefs.
We have had a number of former, mainstream Christians, who recently backed off the mainstream part post here recently. Maybe some of them will chime in to this thread.
I am a former Mormon, who turned atheist/agnostic about 5 and a half years ago.
Thank you! Going from mormonism to atheism must have been a big step for you!
Ilene! I was reading other posts, and came across one of yours, and thought, wait a minute!! Wasn't she even more "staunch" than I was? I do remember you, and I think it's great that someone else is going through exactly what I am. I look forward to talking with you more.
Yes I was!! LOL! Some of my past posts are rather embarrassing now. I guess with me it all started when I verbalized my doubts about the bible. I hadn't read it enough to be up on the fact that it was full of inconsistencies and contradictions, and very questionable stories about the bible god. I always went by what I was taught and was parroting that. After much discussion with the Christian Universalists, I became one of them because their version of "God is love" sounded more reasonable to me. If I were ever to regain my faith I would never ever be a fundamentalist again, I would go back to being a CU. That's a god I can get on board with.
But even that switch wasn't enough to keep me hanging on, I just didn't believe anymore. I think the bible is nothing but man-made poppycock and if there is a god he wouldn't be anything like the bible describes. And the story of Jesus was the hardest thing to let go of, because I WANTED to believe in him if nothing else. The story is, after all, about love and sacrifice but I have come to the conclusion that it's just another story like all the other ones in the bible. Either it's all true or it's all false, and the incredulous and inconsistent nature of it leads me to conclude it's all false.
One of my problems now is that I live in such a religious centered area of the US and my entire family are all fundamentalists. I haven't been able to share what I believe or don't believe yet, I just can't handle the fallout of all that right now. So I just go along with whatever someone says and quickly change the subject if at all possible but I refuse to take part in anymore debating or religious discussions. I've had enough of that!!
Honestly, this board was probably a big reason I've changed because after I came down off of my high fundie horse a little bit I started to listen to others and what they were saying, and I started to learn things. Some of the fundies in the Christianity forum think I'm bound for hell and I've lost my way but it's so much more than that. This has turned everything I knew and believed to be true on it's head and now I know where my head was really at all that time I was arguing and debating for Christianity. This board gave voice to my inside turmoil and now I feel free and free to investigate and research whatever I want to.
I'm not done yet, but I am done with Christianity. It's over, finished. I'm happy where I am and now I want to research more of the scientific side of things, which is something I've never done. Being tied to a specific denomination or religion really binds you and they discourage free thinking, which is something we need more of. I don't know how you came to be where you are now and even you might not be able to pinpoint where and when it all started to change but you seem happy enough, albeit a little confused like me.
If you ever need to talk through things just send me a dm, I'll be happy to chat about our "disbelief".
This has certainly been an interesting second half of the year. All these deconversions taking place. There is Ilene (formerly DayOfTheLord), Northstar, Shiloh and now MzJamieDawn. Over on Facebook, two other "friends" I know only online, just came out of the blue and dropped religion after staunchly defending it. While it is a process (Ilene and MzJamieDawn being the latest I know of) every last one of them say that they feel so much weight and relief. All of US were evangelical Christians at one point and that world can be a VERY strange world full of legalism, fear, oppression, restrictions, guilt and depression. Pulling yourself from under all of that unhealthiness is not easy but when you wiggle out, you feel the weight just drop right off.
Does this mean life becomes perfect? Hardly, but TRULY "old things are passed away" and LIFE becomes new again. Of course, to hear some Christians tell it, we only deconverted to have sex (as if being a Christian ever stopped anybody), get drunk, get high, to irk god because we don't like him anymore or because we want to sacrifice babies to Satan. Those of us who feels it know it and the feeling is we KNOW we feel far better and even if some of us are confused now, there is actually some light to see where we are walking and it is NOT by blind faith anymore. We get up, take life as it comes, walk by as much reason and logic as we can and live on a practical level instead of "leaving it in the hands of god."
Despite all of the fronting here on City-Data, I know full well there are others who KNOW their "faith" is on shaky ground, but the last stand is usually a bunch of posturing and denial. I'll be hearing from them is due time and they will be glad to speak up.
Yes I was!! LOL! Some of my past posts are rather embarrassing now. I guess with me it all started when I verbalized my doubts about the bible. I hadn't read it enough to be up on the fact that it was full of inconsistencies and contradictions, and very questionable stories about the bible god. I always went by what I was taught and was parroting that. After much discussion with the Christian Universalists, I became one of them because their version of "God is love" sounded more reasonable to me. If I were ever to regain my faith I would never ever be a fundamentalist again, I would go back to being a CU. That's a god I can get on board with.
But even that switch wasn't enough to keep me hanging on, I just didn't believe anymore. I think the bible is nothing but man-made poppycock and if there is a god he wouldn't be anything like the bible describes. And the story of Jesus was the hardest thing to let go of, because I WANTED to believe in him if nothing else. The story is, after all, about love and sacrifice but I have come to the conclusion that it's just another story like all the other ones in the bible. Either it's all true or it's all false, and the incredulous and inconsistent nature of it leads me to conclude it's all false.
One of my problems now is that I live in such a religious centered area of the US and my entire family are all fundamentalists. I haven't been able to share what I believe or don't believe yet, I just can't handle the fallout of all that right now. So I just go along with whatever someone says and quickly change the subject if at all possible but I refuse to take part in anymore debating or religious discussions. I've had enough of that!!
Honestly, this board was probably a big reason I've changed because after I came down off of my high fundie horse a little bit I started to listen to others and what they were saying, and I started to learn things. Some of the fundies in the Christianity forum think I'm bound for hell and I've lost my way but it's so much more than that. This has turned everything I knew and believed to be true on it's head and now I know where my head was really at all that time I was arguing and debating for Christianity. This board gave voice to my inside turmoil and now I feel free and free to investigate and research whatever I want to.
I'm not done yet, but I am done with Christianity. It's over, finished. I'm happy where I am and now I want to research more of the scientific side of things, which is something I've never done. Being tied to a specific denomination or religion really binds you and they discourage free thinking, which is something we need more of. I don't know how you came to be where you are now and even you might not be able to pinpoint where and when it all started to change but you seem happy enough, albeit a little confused like me.
If you ever need to talk through things just send me a dm, I'll be happy to chat about our "disbelief".
It really is good to know I'm not alone. While my doubts started years ago, I would have to say that listening to "the other side" of the story on this board is what finally made me realize I was wrong in my beliefs.
I remember sitting in bible class, studying specific scripture, and the teacher would say, this is what it means....and I would say, I don't see that at all, couldn't it also mean... He would get flustered, and my aunt (whom I always sat next to) would whisper to me that now was not the time. Say what? Isn't this bible study? Isn't this when I should be giving my opinion, and all of us deciding together what truth is, not us just listening to the teacher?
This went on for a few years until I found this sight. On the topics that I firmly believed in, I would debate. On others where I was on the fence, I would listen.
Listening to how many different beliefs there are, whether it be a religion, or a denomination in Christianity, I would begin to think...who's right? Everyone on here truly believes their belief is the right one. I would look at Muslims, Mormons, etc, and think, how can you believe in those books? Then wondered, how many people think the same thing about me?
You can take the bible, give it to ten different people, and after they read it, get ten different versions of truth. Yet, God isn't supposed to be the author of confusion? Hmmm. Really makes one think.
I am happy. I'm not scared anymore about what "Joe" will think about me if he sees me having a drink, or what "Nancy" will tell others if I'm walking into an R rated movie. Most of all, I'm like you, happy that my days of trying to prove to others my religion is the right one, is over.
Most of my family knows my opinion on things now, except there are some I'd rather not even say anything to, like my aforementioned aunt. She still thinks I'll some day go back to church. While my family disagrees with me, they don't make me feel bad for my new found belief.
I'm so glad I posted today. I feel even better now. I would like to say I hold no animosity toward Christians, or Christianity. I don't plan on bashing anyone for their beliefs. I definitely believe everyone has the right to believe the way they see fit.
Now that I've looked up the word agnostic, I think that describes me pretty well.
This has certainly been an interesting second half of the year. All these deconversions taking place. There is Ilene (formerly DayOfTheLord), Northstar, Shiloh and now MzJamieDawn. Over on Facebook, two other "friends" I know only online, just came out of the blue and dropped religion after staunchly defending it. While it is a process (Ilene and MzJamieDawn being the latest I know of) every last one of them say that they feel so much weight and relief. All of US were evangelical Christians at one point and that world can be a VERY strange world full of legalism, fear, oppression, restrictions, guilt and depression. Pulling yourself from under all of that unhealthiness is not easy but when you wiggle out, you feel the weight just drop right off.
Does this mean life becomes perfect? Hardly, but TRULY "old things are passed away" and LIFE becomes new again. Of course, to hear some Christians tell it, we only deconverted to have sex (as if being a Christian ever stopped anybody), get drunk, get high, to irk god because we don't like him anymore or because we want to sacrifice babies to Satan. Those of us who feels it know it and the feeling is we KNOW we feel far better and even if some of us are confused now, there is actually some light to see where we are walking and it is NOT by blind faith anymore. We get up, take life as it comes, walk by as much reason and logic as we can and live on a practical level instead of "leaving it in the hands of god."
Despite all of the fronting here on City-Data, I know full well there are others who KNOW their "faith" is on shaky ground, but the last stand is usually a bunch of posturing and denial. I'll be hearing from them is due time and they will be glad to speak up.
Very well said. I remember you well.
I think those whose faith is on shaky ground want to hold onto it as much as possible, because it's all they've known. It's still hard for me to give up the complete belief of a God, or of Jesus. I want to believe in them. The bible just makes it hard to do.
I became a Christian at the age of 24. I went to church 3 times a week for about 10-11 years. I was a Sunday school teacher, very active with the youth group, ladies activities, etc.
Then after 18 years, I got a divorce. I had married at 17, so I went a bit wild and sowed some oats, and, in the meantime, stopped going to church.
I used to be on these boards, and would debate like crazy over Christianity, and why my beliefs were correct. I would also read a lot of other's posts, and take them to heart. If someone could point out as fact that my beliefs were wrong, I wanted to listen.
This led to my studying and searching. My beliefs now? That the bible is man's word, not God's. That man has had his hand in it so much, and there are so many contradictions, that it can't possibly be God's word anymore. Therefore, how do I know what God said, and what He didn't?
I still believe in a God. The God of the bible? I don't know. I just "have" to believe that somebody/something created this world, and that there is something after this life. Why? I don't know...maybe because I believed it all my life.
There are times I get scared, thinking, what if I'm wrong, and I should be the way I was before, otherwise I'm going to hell? Then I get angry, because I think, one shouldn't worship any God or go through the motions, out of fear. I also have a hard time believing if God is supposed to be love, why would there be any concept of hell?
As for Jesus, I want to believe in Him. However, it's hard to do so, since the only thing I can go off of is the bible.
Anyway...if someone was to ask me my religious affiliation, I would probably answer Christianity. With my new beliefs though, I'm sure most Christians would disagree.
So, besides confused (haha), what would I be considered?
I've been away from these boards for quite a while, so I'd like to say hi to everyone I had the privilege of talking with on here before!
Actually, you sound a lot like me (an agnostic atheist), except I wouldn't refer to my "wanting" to believe in a god or an afterlife, or "fearing" death, etc., as actually believing in the reality of these things. I don't know about you, but my beliefs are the result of being convinced of something's truth. I cannot choose to believe in the existence of something based on fear, or even based on my wants/desires. Heck, there are some things that I believe in that I would rather not believe, but have no choice based on the overwhelming evidence.
Even if someone were to offer me 10 million dollars to believe that I was a porcupine, for example, I couldn't make myself actually believe. Would I want to believe it? Heck yeah! Could I “try” to believe? Yes! Could I pretend to believe it? Sure! But would I actually believe it? No. Wanting to believe something does not change the fact that I do not actually believe it.
Believing that something exists should be independent of whether or not that belief could give you comfort. Either you are convinced by evidence that a particular god exists, or you are not convinced and you withhold belief (as a non-believer; atheist) until such time as you are provided with such. For instance, if I was convinced by evidence that a two headed tyrant god existed, I would have no choice but to believe that he existed, period....regardless of how it made me "feel." As an atheist, I have not yet been persuaded to believe in any god due to the lack of convincing evidence. However, I am always open to the possibility!
As for origins of the universe (or whether it has always existed in one form or another)........that is no reason to believe in a god....just because you can't come up with another explanation for something! How is that belief anyway? I know for me, my beliefs are arrived at based on being convinced of something's truth. It seems like you are grasping at straws trying to find some reason that would justify a belief in god. However, using the word "belief" for something just because you can't come up with another explanation does not sound like someone who is convinced of something.
What is wrong with "I don't know?" Because in actuality, that is the only truthful answer...that you do not know how the universe began. Otherwise, you are just using god as placeholder ("god of the gaps") for that which has not yet been explained. Even though I don't "know" how the universe came to be, I obviously don't believe a god created it, because I have not been convinced that a god even exists to have done anything, much less create the universe. One would have to prove that god exists first, for me to give consideration to the claim that "he" created the universe.
Good luck to you!
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I guess with me it all started when I verbalized my doubts about the bible. I hadn't read it enough to be up on the fact that it was full of inconsistencies and contradictions, and very questionable stories about the bible god. I always went by what I was taught and was parroting that. After much discussion with the Christian Universalists, I became one of them because their version of "God is love" sounded more reasonable to me. If I were ever to regain my faith I would never ever be a fundamentalist again, I would go back to being a CU. That's a god I can get on board with.
