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Saudi Arabia's form of Islam is Salafism, and their political system is premodern. Is it really fair to charecterize a religion and civilization by that one society?
[quote=theflipflop;22048449]Forgive me, but this seems to be an "internal Muslim" issue, and I don't think Americans and those with Western religions can even read this story with any proper context. It's wrong for a Chrstian or Jew to even have an opinion on this. This was a Muslim who commited a crime against Islam in a Muslim country during a Muslim religious event. And we Americans should have an opinion?
Yes we ought to have an opinion because he was Australian and many folks go to hajj from the West so we do have a say in the justness of this.
I for one would like to see that people are treated justly.
You say he committed a crime, have you read the news on it out there. It has been really lacking on information on exactly what he did. It has not said what he said, or the context of what was said.
Had the Muslims arrested an American Chrstian in Saudi for this "crime," then perhaps a comment would be warrented. But in the meantime, give these Muslims some credit that they can handle this issue on their own.
I would never go to Saudi, and certainly not during Hajj, and if i did, i wouldn't open my mouth, and if i did, i wouldn't say anythign inflammatory to their prophet, and if i did, I would accept the consequences (which if I'm not mistaken, the person who committed the crime did accept the consequences).
Again it is not clear what he said or did.
I'm having a hard time understanding why people are giving Woodrow a hard time about his faith - at least using this issue as a justification.
Because Woodrow is attempting to justify it. It is not clear exactly what the man did. There is not complete information out there. And given that Saudia Arabia has archaic punishments it is necessary for outsiders to pay attention.
Hello everybody... Muslim on Muslim violence is not the problem. Let them deal with that.
The problem, is that they're trying to steal Jerusalem away from the Jews. And even more problematic, is that worldwide you find too many Chrstians supporting the Arabs in this quest. Granted, educated Chrstians tend to be pro-Jew, so it's really just the trashy ones.
Saudi Arabia's form of Islam is Salafism, and their political system is premodern. Is it really fair to charecterize a religion and civilization by that one society?
Saudia Arabia spends alot of money to export its form of Wahabi Islam to the Muslim world, and the West, so yes we ought to pay attention.
The wahabi form of Islam is not just found in SA. There are mosques, schools, and other Islamic organizations that take money from Wahabi sources from SA.
Because Woodrow is attempting to justify it. It is not clear exactly what the man did. There is not complete information out there. And given that Saudia Arabia has archaic punishments it is necessary for outsiders to pay attention.
Noooo, Jazzymom. You have it all wrong. It is not your job as an American Jew to have a single opinion about what is right and wrong inside a sovereign Muslim nation. Let them deal with their own. If Woodrow and his peep's are fine with it, then it's not your problem.
YOU must be focusing on your Jewish plight first. Help your Jewish brothers and sisters who are victims of the current day holocaust (interfaith marriage and indifference to the Torah). When you feel you have mastered THIS concept, then you can worry about tikkun olam (repairing the world).
Forgive me, but this seems to be an "internal Muslim" issue, and I don't think Americans and those with Western religions can even read this story with any proper context. It's wrong for a Chrstian or Jew to even have an opinion on this. This was a Muslim who commited a crime against Islam in a Muslim country during a Muslim religious event. And we Americans should have an opinion?
Had the Muslims arrested an American Chrstian in Saudi for this "crime," then perhaps a comment would be warrented. But in the meantime, give these Muslims some credit that they can handle this issue on their own.
I would never go to Saudi, and certainly not during Hajj, and if i did, i wouldn't open my mouth, and if i did, i wouldn't say anythign inflammatory to their prophet, and if i did, I would accept the consequences (which if I'm not mistaken, the person who committed the crime did accept the consequences).
I'm having a hard time understanding why people are giving Woodrow a hard time about his faith - at least using this issue as a justification.
Thank you Flipflop,
You are correct this is a religious issue about something at a religious ritual involving only adherents of the religion. It has nothing to do with the country laws of Saudi.
A little back ground on Hajj, it is very strenuous physically. A person should only go on Hajj if they are both physically and financially able. Every Muslim who is PHYSICALLY and financially able, is obligated to do Hajj at least once in his lifetime. If they do not have both they are under no obligation. However, financial help is available to all Muslims when a Muslim states his intent to go on Hajj all Muslims who know of the intent, will help as much as possible. Even the King of Saudi provides financial assistance for those who need financial help for hajj. However, physical health and stamina to do the hajj are another issue that money can not help with. During hajj a person will be at the mercy of the weather, have to walk 20+ miles daily, etc. It is a very physically challenging event. It is not intended to be easy. It is not a sight seeing tour.
This is a strictly Muslim issue. No non-Muslim is permitted in the cities of Madinah and Makkah (Medina and Mecca). These 2 cities are located in one of the harshest desert regions on earth. The summer times are a time of high temperature and fierce sand storms. the winter months can be dangerously cold. Because of the difference in the Hijr and Gregorian calenders hajj occurs 10 to12 days earlier each year. Hajj will occur during all seasons over a 12 year period. The crowd of over a million people all walking in the same direction at the same time is overwhelming. During the time of hajj you are virtually shoulder to shoulder with people 24 hours a day. For the safety of all and the preservation of the pilgrimage, strict rules are in place and the violation of these rules do carry very harsh punishments. Very seldom does anyone violate any of the rules. Although very harsh sentences are handed down a person can usually escape the punishment by simply asking for forgiveness and vowing to repent. also the punishment if applied can be tempered,to be tolerable to a person.s mental and physical state. The punishments if applied are more often applied symbolically rather than physical. The court is obligated to find reason for leniency in administrating the ordered punishment.
What is odd is that this made the world news. What occurs in Madinah and Makkah normally stays in Madinah and Makkah.
This is strictly a Muslim issue, dealing only with adult Muslims who know in advance what to expect while on Hajj. It has nothing to do with any state or national or kingdom laws.
You are correct this is a religious issue about something at a religious ritual involving only adherents of the religion. It has nothing to do with the country laws of Saudi.
A little back ground on Hajj, it is very strenuous physically. A person should only go on Hajj if they are both physically and financially able. Every Muslim who is PHYSICALLY and financially able, is obligated to do Hajj at least once in his lifetime. If they do not have both they are under no obligation. However, financial help is available to all Muslims when a Muslim states his intent to go on Hajj all Muslims who know of the intent, will help as much as possible. Even the King of Saudi provides financial assistance for those who need financial help for hajj. However, physical health and stamina to do the hajj are another issue that money can not help with. During hajj a person will be at the mercy of the weather, have to walk 20+ miles daily, etc. It is a very physically challenging event. It is not intended to be easy. It is not a sight seeing tour.
This is a strictly Muslim issue. No non-Muslim is permitted in the cities of Madinah and Makkah (Medina and Mecca). These 2 cities are located in one of the harshest desert regions on earth. The summer times are a time of high temperature and fierce sand storms. the winter months can be dangerously cold. Because of the difference in the Hijr and Gregorian calenders hajj occurs 10 to12 days earlier each year. Hajj will occur during all seasons over a 12 year period. The crowd of over a million people all walking in the same direction at the same time is overwhelming. During the time of hajj you are virtually shoulder to shoulder with people 24 hours a day. For the safety of all and the preservation of the pilgrimage, strict rules are in place and the violation of these rules do carry very harsh punishments. Very seldom does anyone violate any of the rules. Although very harsh sentences are handed down a person can usually escape the punishment by simply asking for forgiveness and vowing to repent. also the punishment if applied can be tempered,to be tolerable to a person.s mental and physical state. The punishments if applied are more often applied symbolically rather than physical. The court is obligated to find reason for leniency in administrating the ordered punishment.
What is odd is that this made the world news. What occurs in Madinah and Makkah normally stays in Madinah and Makkah.
This is strictly a Muslim issue, dealing only with adult Muslims who know in advance what to expect while on Hajj. It has nothing to do with any state or national or kingdom laws.
Woodrow no it is not a strictly Muslim issue. It is an international issue when the person is a citizen of another country and the Saudis have to comply with international law.
As I have stated many many times there are skimpy details as to exactly what happened.
But the international community does have a right and responsibility to question this.
And whoever said Muslims and Orthodox Jews can't get along.
Even though we dispute ownership of Jerusalem, outside of that, I "get" them, and their customs. Granted most of their customs are just copies of ours (laws of modesty, kosher meats, etc), at least they're giving it a shot. If the Muslims would give up any claim to Jerusalem, we could go back to being best friend cousins again.
What do you say, Woodrow? You already own 99.9% of the land (and basically all the natural resources) in the Middle East. Just throw us this one bone, and boom, we're good!
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