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Old 12-16-2011, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 1,418,687 times
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"The world exists by design"; The intelligent being should have been designed in his innate capacities for Creating all that exists. So the other form of "the World just happened" may also be some form of Creating from an external capacity. I think He was uncertainly there with respect to the time OR possible times of the event. And there from a science standpoint there still is some Design to reconsider in the what God was innately Doing.

Thus I believe that God created the universe to be in the process of being an improving Intelligence. God is the factual intelligence no doubt, but still the being co-present of design is more a Fact then to be found for "theory" what is alive? what is self-designing? what is the external source for the existence of the Whole: either the universal or the particular.

 
Old 12-16-2011, 02:57 PM
 
3,450 posts, read 1,110,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
So please explain this. If accretion is correct, then that would make the little rocks come together to form one rock... ok. But, the way I see the moon, with my eyes, I see a perfect circle. Of course the fact is, it's not a perfect circle all the way around. But I see a perfect circle, and in fact, that is a circle that's very close to perfect, if not absolutely perfect. I don't see it possible that through this accretion, "that uses gravity that pulls everything to the 'center'", that there is a side that's a little out of whack. Please. Exlpain how this happens, and it's not just something that hit the moon causing this damaged side of it.

And... are there other small pieces of rock from this billion year old collision that are orbiting earth, as well as the moon, or, has the moon become like a giant vacuum cleaner and there are no more bits of rock from the collision, separate from the moon.

I'm sorry but right now I'm not totally sold on the accretion thing because of what I've just posted. Please help my understanding.
Seeing can be deceiving. Your perspective, that is. First of all, if it were a circle in any form, it would be a two dimensional object, so I am assuming that you mean to say that you see it as a perfect sphere. The Moon certainly is neither a perfect circle or a perfect sphere. No planetary body in the solar system is, and in fact, the Moon deviates from a perfect sphere substantially. Not only does it deviate from a sphere geodetically, it also deviates with regard to it's mass. It is lopsided, with much of its mass being situated on the Earth-facing side. Think of it as a ball which has a weight attached to it. If you roll the ball across a floor, it will wobble in it's path until it comes to rest on the side that is heaviest. That is exactly what we see with regard to the Moon. It always has the same face oriented towards the Earth because that side has more mass than the other side. So it is lopsided with regard to mass and shape.

It is lopsided because the core solidified not as a perfect sphere, but with more of its mass attracted to the more massive Earth. The late heavy bombarment affected the Earth-facing side more than the opposite side, the impacts throwing off a lot of material and redistributing it. The bombardment re-melted the crust, and a lot of flood volcanism occurred, forming the maria we see on the Earth-facing side. Recall that the maria are miles lower in elevation than the lunar highlands.

It's funny that you should bring up the question of accretion, because experiments have recently been conducted on the International Space Station to try to find a answer to the question of what starts the accretion process. It had an unexpected result. What they found was that in a microgravity environment, small particles (and remember, if an object the size of Mars struck the Earth,the debris thrown off will largely be vaporized and then cool mostly as small particles) tend to clump together, it is thought, due to electrostatic forces. As they begin to clump together, more and more particles are attracted, until all of the particles used in the experiment were clumped together. This has implications for initial accretion of particles in space. After enough mass has accreted, gravity takes control.

Donald Pettit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it can be shown that there is a size limitation to when an astronomical body changes shape from an angular object to one that is more spherical. The larger the object, the more mass it has, and the more it tends towards a spheroidal shape. For instance, there are no spheroidal comets. But the large asteroid Vesta tends towards the spheroidal, while the larger dwarf planet Ceres is spheroidal.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 03:04 PM
 
3,450 posts, read 1,110,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
I'll be studying this moon accretion subject that's for sure, as well as everything else posted on this thread.

So now there is no leftover debris. Or is there? And if so... can we observe it coming together... "towards the moon". Hmmmm. That's the question.

Because if there is... and it's not being pulled towards the moon... that wouldn't make sense.
There are millions of objects in near-Earth orbits. What are the odds that none of them are relics of the impact that formed the Earth-Moon system?
 
Old 12-16-2011, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Ohio
7,615 posts, read 3,202,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
What? That perfectly round moon is the result of an impact? That's not too intelligent.
Gravity!!!! You know that kiddy ride at the fair that you get on and it spins in a circle and......key word here.....PULLS you back? Sorta the same concept with the moon. Over time all the debris would come together and eventualy the pull of the gravity would shape it into a roundish sphere.



Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
Please excuse my uneducated mind, but why would I have to bend the creation account? I never said I believe the moon once touched the earth. That's just proof that the earth couldn't have been here billions of years ago.
It isn't proof at all that the EARTH couldn't have been here billions of years, but rather that the moon couldn't have in the form it is now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
Wow!!! ok, so here we have the evolutionists arguement that the moon was the result of an impact!!! I've got to hear the explanation of how a perfect circle is the result of an impact.
.
GRAVITY.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
Seriously? You expect people to believe a planet the size of Mars crashed into earth, and the earth somehow stayed intact and wasn't crushed into pieces
.

Consider the angle theory which has been presented to you throughout this thread, but also, have you ever considered the density of the other planet? Perhaps the density of the mars sized planet wasn't enough to knock earth out of orbit.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
Oh ok, so the little pieces of rock pulled together on their own and formed one large one because of gravity. What, were the little pieces of rock, liquid? They were little pieces of rock!!! not pieces of liquid flying around!!! You're not going to fool me here
.

Your doing a good enough job of that yourself.

Quote:
God's going to help me out here and prove you make no sense.
A sure sign that your god doesn't exist or is playing games on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
Ok, if 10 billion is correct then that's possible. But I'll have to double check that math.

Thanks for your help in explaining your scientific perspective and I will learn as much as I can from what you all have posted. I'm still having trouble with the "a" word you used to describe how, because of gravity, solid rocks unite into one big piece over time.

I have to admit, I do understand how you can believe the things you do, since it's very convincing. But I personally know God and that's a fact.
This is a pretty much pointless effort on our part then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
The number of times minus the available footage I have probably equals somewhere around the sum of negitive 20. In simpler terms: "I don't have enough feet to put in my big mouth for everytime I said something I believed, that was false." I definitely need to learn something from this, I oppologize.

However, just because me, a little Poe Ducky, am wrong about alot, doesn't mean that evolution is a fact. Many people here claim it to be a fact. I admit, there is substancial reason for them to believe this. But, what I do know is that I personally know God. It is an impossibility for me to claim otherwise. Also, there is no burden for me to prove this to others. I am more than willing to explain and reveal the facts, that have really happened in my life, that give very good reason for my factual belief in God, in my personal life, but that has nothing to do with what were talking about here.

Without researching, because I trust you all are correct, the obvious conclusion I have to come up with is that Doug Batchelor has intentionally lied to alot of people. And I need to learn how not to state things as fact before I thoroughly research it. I will learn alot from this thread hopefully. I oppologize again, and have much respect for you all. Thanks for your responses.

Just remember. This doesn't mean Evolution is fact and it doesn't prove there is no God, to you personally. It just proves that people can decieve, and people can be decieved, and scientist should be respected for their study and knowledge.
Ahhhh man, you had your revalation before I arrived on the scene.

Quote:
because I trust you all are correct
Right here is one of your biggest problems. Why on earth would you trust us? For all you know we are a bunch of basement dwellers who never have left the comfort of mommies couch who are just making things up! No, you should doubt what you have read here, every bit of it infact. Look, you trusted that guy in your video and where exactly did that get you? Looking like a clueless fool on a discussion forum is where. Do your own research, verifyn it through many objective sources, and you will be better off for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
Well, I'll be darned. A creationist who admits when he's wrong. What's the world coming to?
OMG a pig just flew by my window!!!!!
 
Old 12-16-2011, 04:11 PM
 
3,450 posts, read 1,110,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
OMG a pig just flew by my window!!!!!
Interesting. One just flew into mine!.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Ohio
7,615 posts, read 3,202,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
Interesting. One just flew into mine!.

Pigs Flying?

Evolution at work!
 
Old 12-16-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: San Gabriel Valley, CA
11,639 posts, read 11,750,671 times
Reputation: 7773
What is a "poe"?
 
Old 12-16-2011, 08:28 PM
 
3,450 posts, read 1,110,708 times
Reputation: 2550
Poe's Law: Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: San Gabriel Valley, CA
11,639 posts, read 11,750,671 times
Reputation: 7773
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
Poe's Law: Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing.
Ha...thanks.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,258,924 times
Reputation: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strel View Post
He HAS to be a Poe. No real Creationist would ever admit they were wrong.
Have to agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Right here is one of your biggest problems. Why on earth would you trust us? For all you know we are a bunch of basement dwellers who never have left the comfort of mommies couch who are just making things up! No, you should doubt what you have read here, every bit of it infact. Look, you trusted that guy in your video and where exactly did that get you? Looking like a clueless fool on a discussion forum is where. Do your own research, verifyn it through many objective sources, and you will be better off for it.
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
Gautama Siddharta,
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