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Unread 01-05-2012, 09:07 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 616,338 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
Wrong? About what?
I told you the theory was bound to collapse because it was built up without a foundation.
http://www2.asa3.org/archive/evolution/200003/0019.html

Is there something in that quote that is wrong?

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson
Yes there is something wrong - in the WAY that you use the quote. Have you read Gee's books? Any of them? If you had, then you would know that he is a paleontologist who certainly has done work in the field of evolution science. He isn't saying that evolution is wrong or that it is no longer relevant. He is saying that people like you and the way this work was done years ago are wrong. The old Linnaean school has been replaced with cladistics, dude (Cladistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Evolution has not collapsed nor will it likely collapse in the future. All he is saying is that like every scientific endeavor, it changes, it evolves based on new information and new ways of gathering and analyzing the information. He is saying that fossil evidence, though highly useful, is much more limited in the amount of detail it can bring to bear than other evidence such as genomic studies of modern species. Nevertheless, fossil evidence can tell us a lot about paleobiodiversity, paleoecology, and many other issues critical to knowledge about ancient life on Earth. What doesn't tell us anything is the religious mantra "God did it".

 
Unread 01-05-2012, 09:31 PM
 
2,767 posts, read 759,627 times
Reputation: 470
Evolution = RELIGION


hovind rainbow debate - YouTube

Natural selection "selects" from an already existing gene pool. Most mutations drive species to extinction. The ones that are "selected" are a genetically inferior species that lost information.

Fossils are evidence for a gigantic world-wide flood. "Homologous structures" are evidence for a common designer. As Iron is a good metal used in manufacturing used for various objects, Chitin is a good structural protein found in various biological systems. The list goes on an on.

Evolution turns out to be mathematically impossible. What we observe is "irreducible complexity". You have a mousetrap, and have only 4/5 of it, you do not catch 4/5 the amount of mice. You catch zero mice. It doesn't work without all the pieces working as a unit. Irreducible complexity can't evolve.

Chicken or egg problem.. DNA or Protein... DNA replication is enzyme (proteins in themselves) dependent which is a 3/4 self-correcting digital code. You don't only need the DNA you need a cell membrane and cell WALL really (without it the cell undergoes lysis due to osmosis). Look up the structure of a cell membrane and cell wall.

Bottom line is Evolution didn't happen. It requires MORE FAITH to believe in this foolish Religious ideology masquerading as "Science". This idea survives on funding.

We simply have people in high places that want to indoctrinate YOU and your kids into their RELIGIOUS ideology. Do we teach evolution or intelligent design to our children in public schools? These people in high places are spending plenty of money (they own it) to pay their false religious Priests to tickle their ears that there is no creator. With no creator there is no rules or accountability. No eternal damnation - Lake of Fire.

Hitler once said you give him the public schools, and in a generation he'll have the nation. (<paraphrase) He wanted to establish the Human "Aryan" SUPER RACE. All that HE didn't deem worthy were SLAUGHTERED in death camps. True evil doesn't exist? Do some research on WHY Hitler did what he did. Evolution ideologies eventually lead to genocide. We see this again and again when ruthless dictators indoctrinated into Evolution ideologies establish power. All "inferior" races >>> the JEWS and Christians Primarily in their eyes, are deemed expendable.

Behind all the creation/evolution debates is a spiritual war. History repeats itself. We learn nothing from history.

Indoctrinate generations of children and you have a nation brainwashed. It is exactly what we are seeing. There is zero evidence for evolution because it hasn't happened. Check out the video for yourself. Evolution should have been thrown in the trash over 60 years ago.

Think of this.. If there is a creator, and YOU reject him, what happens to you? If there isn't a creator, but you wagered he did, what do you lose?

It's called Pascal's Wager. Not only is there overwhelming evidence that YHWH God is the creator/redeemer, it makes zero sense rationally to conclude he doesn't exist.

Isaiah 66

22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


Salvation from perdition is a free gift to any who pursue in Messiah Jesus. It's the good news of the gospel. Hell can be avoided by the work of what Jesus did on that cross bearing the wrath of the curse. All we have to do is accept it by faith.

It is a decision you will NEVER regret. It is a choice though. The worst thing we can do is reject God's love. We have no idea what it means to be eternally separated from the source of all that is good in God with NO HOPE. Don't let that happen to you. It's sad the rich guy in Sheol recorded in Luke 16 was conscious of his previous life when he asked to send someone to his brothers to convince them to repent.

Eternal conscious regret of our life with no hope? Please don't reject God's love in Messiah.

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18

This life is our window of opportunity. What is this physical dimension of time?

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
2 Peter 3:9

God created us for fellowship. He wants all to come to him. A just Judge must judge sin. The Wages of sin is death. Christ paid the penalty for all that accept it. All that don't will have to pay their own way. Our works without Messiah lead to eternal damnation because we have rejected the love of God.
 
Unread 01-05-2012, 09:42 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 616,338 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Evolution = RELIGION


hovind rainbow debate - YouTube

<snip>
Are you certain that you want to quote from someone who believes that the Flintstones is a documentary?
 
Unread 01-05-2012, 09:44 PM
 
177 posts, read 31,904 times
Reputation: 53
lol
 
Unread 01-05-2012, 09:59 PM
 
2,767 posts, read 759,627 times
Reputation: 470
Opinion is relative. Truth is absolute. Our life is finite. We don't know when our time is up.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--HERBERT SPENCER
 
Unread 01-05-2012, 10:06 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 616,338 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Opinion is relative. Truth is absolute. Our life is finite. We don't know when our time is up.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--HERBERT SPENCER

Truth is absolute? Really? According to who? I find it a bit strange that you would post a video by Ken Hovind (a creationist) in one post and a quote from Herbert Spencer (a rarely read evolutionionary biologist) in another.
 
Unread 01-05-2012, 10:12 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 616,338 times
Reputation: 1810
As for Pascal's wager, it is now considered to be a logical fallacy -

Argument from inconsistent revelations.

Voltaire rejected the notion that the wager was proof of god as "indecent and childish", adding, "the interest I have to believe a thing is no proof that such a thing exists."
 
Unread 01-05-2012, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,861 posts, read 3,271,635 times
Reputation: 1476
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
Now - show me Gee's denial that he does not believe what Peter Bowler says he does.
Rather than give us what other people are saying about Gee's beliefs, why don't you give us the actual words of Gee himself where he claims that he does not accept evolution?
 
Unread 01-05-2012, 10:46 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 616,338 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
Do you know of someone who thinks that?
His book simply leaves evolution with a serious problem in its reliance on the fossil record for proof of common ancestry.

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

In the first place, nowhere in any of his writings does he say that the theory of evolution relies solely on fossil evidence. Such evidence is supplimentary, and gives us broad overviews without filling in the details. The details are being meshed out with genetics, in the laboratory and with field studies of living creatures in their natural habitats.

For instance, we can infer how crinoids eat based on their fossilized structures. But it wasn't until we actually studied living crinoids that we came to fully appreciate how those structures are used to gather food. And for a crinoid, it is/was all about ways to gather food in the varied currents of the ocean environment. And because of those varied environments, crinoids evolved many different types of structures to obtain food.

Secondly, as has been repeatedly pointed out, science is not about proof. Mathematics and philosophy is about proof. Science is not.
 
Unread 01-05-2012, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
20,475 posts, read 12,878,336 times
Reputation: 8333
Yup, that is a real credible guy, that Kent Hovind....

A Pensacola evangelist who owns the defunct Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensacola was arrested on 58 federal charges, including failing to pay $473,818 in employee-related taxes and making threats against investigators.

Of the 58 charges, 44 were filed against Kent Hovind and his wife, Jo, for evading bank reporting requirements as they withdrew $430,500 from AmSouth Bank between July 20, 2001, and Aug. 9, 2002.
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