If the universe is billlions of years old... (Revelation, Jewish, Christian)

[orogenicman]

Originally Posted by jdaelectro

I admitted no such thing.

Some of you make it impossible to have a discussion.

When you argue from ignorance and bronze age mythology, what reasoned discussion do you believe is possible?

[miticoman]

Originally Posted by rifleman

Bingo, miticoman! some have a very hard time altering their time honored and stubborn beliefs, that much is patently obvious. Yes, given all the obvious flaws, the re-writes we know of (as in: the King James version, and all the latest wonderful Modern Bible re-writes especially for the "illerati", plus the vast inconsistencies and contradictions), they are all happily and summarily ignored or selectively and conveniently swept under the carpet.

All this occurs while biblical believers happily accept any new anti-truth fabrication that pops up. See: Intelligent Design (), denials of all the latest artifact dating techniques (), even when they are proven () to be accurate, the claim of God simply altering time so as to make distant objects appear to be so ( ; and exactly why would He do this again?) and so on ad nauseum.

The apparent happy intellectual ownership of this reaction and attitude, coupled with the denial of all the factual evidence to the contrary, is an astounding peek into the uneducated and scientifically unsophisticated mind of early man, some of whom have obviously not intellectually advanced nor evolved as much has others. In fact, and I do now fully believe this hypothesis, given the constant drumbeat of easily-seen supporting proofs, is this:

There are distinct intellectually separate species of hominids on this planet. Not all have the same abilities nor interests in understanding and accepting obvious facts and truths via the necessary [scientifically derived] logical processes of observation, evaluation and conclusion. Instead, some obviously prefer to just go with the thinking of others, and thereby adopt a feel-good faith-based but obvious mythology, so easily proven to be thus.

But still, I'll give you an intellectual chance: what are your thoughts on Evolution and ancient geology? Are you also a YEC'r?

Hello and happy to meet you

I personally do not believe in spontaneous development of all the elements that make up the dimension that we humans share with all species of creation, because I believe in this, I mean the universal job is not limited to plant and animal kingdoms, there are different entities, not perceptible to humans, is appealing the idea of a collective projection of the surrounding reality may be evidence of a priority of the spiritual over the material.

I do not understand what means the ending theme---- yec'r-----


omnia sunt possibilia, sed dubito quod Ecclesia unicum veritatis fontem

[orogenicman]

Ugh!

Seismic FAQ - Main Page

Dressing up a belief system in the trappings of science by using scientistic language and jargon, as in "creation-science," means nothing without evidence, experimental testing, and corroboration. Because science has such a powerful mystique in our society, those who wish to gain respectability but do not have any evidence try to do an end run around the missing evidence by looking and sounding "scientific." Here is a classic example from a New Age Column in the Santa Monica News: "This planet has been slumbering for eons and with the inception of higher energy frequencies is about to awaken in terms of consciousness and spirituality. Masters of limitation and masters of divination use the same creative force to manifest their realities, however, one moves in a downward spiral and the latter moves in an upward spiral, each increasing the resonant vibration inherent in them." How's that again? I have no idea what this means, but it has the language components of a physics experiment: "higher energy frequencies," "downward and upward spirals," and "resonant vibration." Yet these phrases mean nothing because they have no precise and operational definitions. How do you measure a planet's higher energy frequencies or the resonant vibration of masters of divination? For that matter, what is a master of divination?

[miticoman]

in fact it is true, every opinion is moot, I am deeply convinced that science and the church, to whom we owe a great delay in the mankind evolution path, hide many truths in them and there is a great interest in maintaining a low level comprehension of the masses

[PanTerra]

Originally Posted by miticoman

in fact it is true, every opinion is moot, I am deeply convinced that science and the church, to whom we owe a great delay in the mankind evolution path, hide many truths in them and there is a great interest in maintaining a low level comprehension of the masses

Huh? Of course every opinion is moot, that's the whole point in a debate forum.

[miticoman]

Originally Posted by PanTerra

Huh? Of course every opinion is moot, that's the whole point in a debate forum.

hey buddy I'm trying to relax the atmosphere, even more sometimes the reality eludes the obvious, then, is all well and good to remember that here we are philosophising

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by orogenicman

Ugh!

Seismic FAQ - Main Page

Dressing up a belief system in the trappings of science by using scientistic language and jargon, as in "creation-science," means nothing without evidence, experimental testing, and corroboration.

I have no idea what this means, but it has the language components of a physics experiment: "higher energy frequencies," "downward and upward spirals," and "resonant vibration." Yet these phrases mean nothing because they have no precise and operational definitions. How do you measure a planet's higher energy frequencies or the resonant vibration of masters of divination? For that matter, what is a master of divination?

You got it!

As to "YEC"; it means a Young Earth Creationist [YEC] person. As in: they firmly believe that it all happened about 5036 ± 3,000 or so years, in precisely 6 days. As in: a YOUNG EARTH.

Of course, the evidence, as in: objectively viewed physical items and geological event chronologies easily disprove this, and geological conditions like The Grand Canyon, the Victoria Falls Gorge, the Olduvai Gorge, and the Great Rift, all conspire agin such silliness. Heck; even the Hawaiian Islands [Necker is >>11 M yrs old!] can be shown to be far older than ≈6000 years. We have sedimentary "varves" (sediment layers laid down in lakes & in stream beds annually following the seasonal hydrological cycles. In Lake Baikal in Russia, for instance, these clearly show the bottom sediment count to be AT LEAST 12 million years old! And that's only when it stabilized and began collecting annual sediments. Frankly, it could be much older that that!

Kashiwaya, Kenji, S. Ochiai, H. Sakai and T. Kawai, 2001. Orbit-related long-term climate cycles revealed in a 12-Myr continental record from Lake Baikal. Nature 410: 71-74.

Oh-oh to the YECr's huh?

Good to see you're keeping an open mind though!

[orogenicman]

Originally Posted by rifleman

You got it!

As to "YEC"; it means a Young Earth Creationist [YEC] person. As in: they firmly believe that it all happened about 5036 ± 3,000 or so years, in precisely 6 days. As in: a YOUNG EARTH.

Of course, the evidence, as in: objectively viewed physical items and geological event chronologies easily disprove this, and geological conditions like The Grand Canyon, the Victoria Falls Gorge, the Olduvai Gorge, and the Great Rift, all conspire agin such silliness. Heck; even the Hawaiian Islands [Necker is >>11 M yrs old!] can be shown to be far older than ≈6000 years. We have sedimentary "varves" (sediment layers laid down in lakes & in stream beds annually following the seasonal hydrological cycles. In Lake Baikal in Russia, for instance, these clearly show the bottom sediment count to be AT LEAST 12 million years old! And that's only when it stabilized and began collecting annual sediments. Frankly, it could be much older that that!

Kashiwaya, Kenji, S. Ochiai, H. Sakai and T. Kawai, 2001. Orbit-related long-term climate cycles revealed in a 12-Myr continental record from Lake Baikal. Nature 410: 71-74.

Oh-oh to the YECr's huh?

Good to see you're keeping an open mind though!

As a geologist who has spend years studying rock formations, geologic structures, and fossil and mineral assemblages, it is a no-brainer to conclude that creationists simply don't know what they are talking about.

[sanspeur]

Barenaked ladies - The history of everything (Full theme song The Big Bang Theory) (Lyrics!) - YouTube

[theflipflop]

Is there really such a thing as a YEC'er? And they truly believe the Earth is 5,000 -8,000 years old? Let me help all of you out here - it's mistranslations and misunderstandings of the Jewish bible that cause these folks to exist.

Yes, the Jewish bible (I would say accurately) pegs the Earth to be exactly 5,772 years old. A simple reading of the Torah will demonstrate those years to be correct. However, where we're unclear, is how "long' each of the first 6 days of creation took.

In simple terms, it could be that day's 1-6 of creation took (by how we calculate a year in our time) millions or billions of years. And then when day 7 arrived (Shabbos), the normal clock began ticking - and that day was 5,772 years ago. Actually, last September when we celebrated Rosh Hashana, THAT was exactly 5,772 years after the first Shabbos. Jews wish the world a "happy birthday" every year on the first day of Rosh Hashana.

Sorry folks, but no amount of science, or even religion for that matter, is going to clarify for you how long the first 6 days of creation took. If the Torah and 3,300 years of Jews can't clarify that for you, there's simply no way you're going to figure it out on your own.