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Unread 01-08-2012, 06:34 PM
 
1,948 posts, read 1,351,418 times
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Default God: Ultimate Concern

Aristotle taught that the only way that the "Prime Mover" (God) could be perfect, lacking potential & unchanging & still influence change (ie creation) is through attraction.
From the tiny microbes to the planets in the universe... we are all attracted to living the best we can, in our unique way of existence.

Paul Tillich wrote, "God is the fundamental & universal content of faith... ultimate concern...It is obvious that such an understanding of the meaning of God make the discussions about the existence or nonexistence of God meaningless. It is meaningless to question the ultimacy of an ultimate concern..."
God is whatever concerns us ultimately, whatever is most important in our lives. This is even true, when one denies the existence of God.
"Where there is ultimate concern, God can be denied only in the name of God."


What is your ultimate concern?
Is it always the same, or does it change?
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Unread 01-08-2012, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
9,889 posts, read 5,857,519 times
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What is your ultimate concern? Interesting question you ask, but a person's ultimate concern can change depending on the situation one finds oneself in, life itself dictates what your ultimate concern would be, the different stages of your life can also dictate what your ultimate concern would be, so I would say that a person's ultimate concern is not always the same.


deprives me of my subjectivity because he is all-powerful and all-knowing, I revolt and make him into an object, but the revolt fails and becomes desperate. God appears as the invincible tyrant, the being in contrast with whom all beings are without freedom and subjectivity. He is equated with the recent tyrants who with the help of terror try to transform everything into a mere object, a thing among things, a cog in a machine they control. He becomes the model of everything against which Existentialism revolted. This is the God Nietzsche said had to be killed because nobody could tolerate being made into a mere object of absolute knowledge and absolute control. This is the deepest root of atheism. It is an atheism which is justified as the reaction against theological theism and it's disturbing implications.
Paul Tillich
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Unread 01-08-2012, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
3,404 posts, read 1,254,649 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post

deprives me of my subjectivity because he is all-powerful and all-knowing, I revolt and make him into an object, but the revolt fails and becomes desperate. God appears as the invincible tyrant, the being in contrast with whom all beings are without freedom and subjectivity. He is equated with the recent tyrants who with the help of terror try to transform everything into a mere object, a thing among things, a cog in a machine they control. He becomes the model of everything against which Existentialism revolted. This is the God Nietzsche said had to be killed because nobody could tolerate being made into a mere object of absolute knowledge and absolute control. This is the deepest root of atheism. It is an atheism which is justified as the reaction against theological theism and it's disturbing implications.
Paul Tillich
What nonsense! I guess if you write something and use a lot of big words, some people think you are wise.
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Unread 01-09-2012, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Ohio
6,368 posts, read 2,638,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
What nonsense! I guess if you write something and use a lot of big words, some people think you are wise.
Instead of just delivering a quick, short-handed insult and running away, why dont you calmy and intelligently explain to him why you see his post as nonsense. Theres nothing I cant stand more than cut-and-run posts.

No wonder us atheists and skeptics have such a bad rep here in R&P
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Unread 01-09-2012, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
22,867 posts, read 15,541,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
What nonsense! I guess if you write something and use a lot of big words, some people think you are wise.
Good grief, they were not ptsum's words...It was a quote by Paul Tillich.
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Unread 01-09-2012, 02:30 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
3,364 posts, read 1,098,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
"[...] It is an atheism which is justified as the reaction against theological theism and it's disturbing implications."

~ Paul Tillich
Not just implications, but applications as well.
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Unread 01-09-2012, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Ashburn, Va
2,769 posts, read 1,145,969 times
Reputation: 2046
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post


deprives me of my subjectivity because he is all-powerful and all-knowing, I revolt and make him into an object, but the revolt fails and becomes desperate. God appears as the invincible tyrant, the being in contrast with whom all beings are without freedom and subjectivity. He is equated with the recent tyrants who with the help of terror try to transform everything into a mere object, a thing among things, a cog in a machine they control. He becomes the model of everything against which Existentialism revolted. This is the God Nietzsche said had to be killed because nobody could tolerate being made into a mere object of absolute knowledge and absolute control. This is the deepest root of atheism. It is an atheism which is justified as the reaction against theological theism and it's disturbing implications.
Paul Tillich
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
What nonsense! I guess if you write something and use a lot of big words, some people think you are wise.

Please to be pointing out the big words you are referring to. Existentialism is the only one I can see. It's not subjectivity is it? Implications?
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Unread 01-09-2012, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
3,404 posts, read 1,254,649 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post

deprives me of my subjectivity because he is all-powerful and all-knowing, I revolt and make him into an object, but the revolt fails and becomes desperate. God appears as the invincible tyrant, the being in contrast with whom all beings are without freedom and subjectivity. He is equated with the recent tyrants who with the help of terror try to transform everything into a mere object, a thing among things, a cog in a machine they control. He becomes the model of everything against which Existentialism revolted. This is the God Nietzsche said had to be killed because nobody could tolerate being made into a mere object of absolute knowledge and absolute control. This is the deepest root of atheism. It is an atheism which is justified as the reaction against theological theism and it's disturbing implications.
Paul Tillich
OK, I read this again a few times, and I still don't understand the point this guy is trying to make. Can anyone simplify it?
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Unread 01-09-2012, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
3,404 posts, read 1,254,649 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
This is the deepest root of atheism. It is an atheism which is justified as the reaction against theological theism and it's disturbing implications.
Paul Tillich
Sorry to be commenting again so soon, but this stuff really puzzles me.

I have heard this Paul Tillich guy is really wise, but since I am a lifelong Atheist, I should understand what it means to be an Atheist.

He mentions the "disturbing implications" of "theologican theism", and says that my Atheism is a "reaction" to those implications. I don't understand that at all.

I believe Theists are people who believe there is a supreme being or supreme force that controls the Universe we see around us, but I don't think their beliefs have any "disturbing implications" for me. Theists have always, and I mean ALWAYS, been very nice to me, so why would Tillich think that my beliefs are an adverse "reaction" to them?

I really don't understand where he is coming from. Do any of you?
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Unread 01-09-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,806 posts, read 12,435,840 times
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hiker45: Theists' beliefs only necessarily have "disturbing implications" for you when their beliefs influence the law.
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