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Not just the number of books, but the amount of ink spent on it. The OP was questioning where are the documents. I pointed out that there are 27 that people are unwilling to believe. There could be twice or three times as many documents written about it and people would still not believe. There could be 10 times the amount of pages and ink and people would find a reason to disbelieve.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
The OP asked where the documents are. I pointed out that there are 27 of them that he/she is unwilling to believe in.
But thanks for proving my point -- it doesn't matter how many we have -- if you're bound and determined to not believe, you won't.
The world is full of religious texts. There are many texts claiming miracles and extraordinary events that supposedly prove the claims of various religions. Do you believe the documents written by Joseph Smith about the miraculous events surrounding the founding of Mormonism? Do you believe the books of the Quran that describe the miraculous events that occurred to Mohammed in Islam? I'm guessing that you don't find those books credible. Why not?
The world is full of religious texts. There are many texts claiming miracles and extraordinary events that supposedly prove the claims of various religions. Do you believe the documents written by Joseph Smith about the miraculous events surrounding the founding of Mormonism?
Of course not. Just read them. It's obviously faked.
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Do you believe the books of the Quran that describe the miraculous events that occurred to Mohammed in Islam? I'm guessing that you don't find those books credible. Why not?
Nope. Muhammed himself wasn't even literate. The author of the koran had no clue what the Bible actually teaches, and was not aware of things such as the doctrine of the Trinity. It's clearly not God's word.
Of course not. Just read them. It's obviously faked.
Nope. Muhammed himself wasn't even literate. The author of the koran had no clue what the Bible actually teaches, and was not aware of things such as the doctrine of the Trinity. It's clearly not God's word.
We have 66 books that attest to the validity of each other. No one is suggesting that any one of the books validates itself. So your suggestion of circular reasoning is completely invalid.
Of course not. Just read them. It's obviously faked.
But of course. Their sacred religious text is obviously a fake/fraud/fairy-tale. Our sacred religious text is the obviously the Unquestionable Sacred Truth. Human Psychology 101.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Nope. Muhammed himself wasn't even literate.
So? If your prophets/apostles/gospel writers can be divinely inspired by a god, why not the founder(s) of Islsm and Mormonism? They can always hire a scribe to write down their divine inspirations, if necessary. Joseph Smith was literate, as far as I know, which makes your argument moot.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
The author of the koran had no clue what the Bible actually teaches, and was not aware of things such as the doctrine of the Trinity. It's clearly not God's word.
You're engaging in circular reasoning. You're assuming the Bible is "the truth" in order to discredit the competing truth claims of other religious texts. The special status of the Bible vs. other religious texts is the very thing being questioned.
Why not assume that the Book of Mormon is God's most accurate and complete revelation to humankind, and then use the Book of Mormon to determine the validity of the Bible? Oh that's right, because you're a Christian and you just know that the Bible is the correct one. If you were a Mormon, you would just know that the Book of Mormon is The Truth(tm) and that the Bible must be critiqued by using the Book of Mormon.
But of course. Their sacred religious text is obviously a fake/fraud/fairy-tale. Our sacred religious text is the obviously the Unquestionable Sacred Truth. Human Psychology 101.
Just read it. Seriously. Do some research. Check out things like the controversy surrounding the book of Abraham. Ask the questions surrounding the young boy Joseph being able to carry gold plates weighing a LOT as he ran and jumped. Ask the questions regarding why it was written in King James English when it was supposedly recorded 2000 years ago, then translated by Smith. Ask the hard questions of why it records animals in the Americas that didn't exist at the time.
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So? If your prophets/apostles/gospel writers can be divinely inspired by a god, why not the founder(s) of Islsm and Mormonism? They can always hire a scribe to write down their divine inspirations, if necessary. Joseph Smith was literate, as far as I know, which makes your argument moot.
I'm saying that in addition to the issues with the book of Mormon, look at the Koran -- look at what the writer of the Koran knew about Christianity and Judaism. He got a lot of things wrong. He clearly had no idea what Christianity teaches. But my statement was regarding Muhammed being illiterate, not young Joe.
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You're engaging in circular reasoning. You're assuming the Bible is "the truth" in order to discredit the competing truth claims of other religious texts. The special status of the Bible vs. other religious texts is the very thing being questioned.
I'm stating that each of the 66 books is attested to be valid by the remaining 65 books, in addition to history and archaeology. The BoM and Koran cannot compare.
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Why not assume that the Book of Mormon is God's most accurate and complete revelation to humankind, and then use the Book of Mormon to determine the validity of the Bible?
I challenge you to actually ask the tough questions about it that I noted above.
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Oh that's right, because you're a Christian and you just know that the Bible is the correct one. If you were a Mormon, you would just know that the Book of Mormon is The Truth(tm) and that the Bible must be critiqued by using the Book of Mormon.
They actually claim it to be ANOTHER testament to the Bible. That means that they also recognize the Bible, at least in theory. Yet, the 2 do contradict on some things.
"My neighbor got a camel today. Our family would like a camel, too, but Papa said we can't afford one. Pretty soon we will be the only people in Damascus who don't have our own camel."
"We went to a stoning today. My uncle was caught wearing a wool robe that he had repaired with some flax fibers. I picked up a flat stone and skimmed it at him the way I would to make it skip across the Dead Sea. It took his eye right out! Everyone cheered. After he was dead, we all went down to Reuben's house for figs and dates."
"Tomorrow we are going to Jerusalem for the feast! I hope I see Mordecai on the road. He is so dreamy. I am hoping that next year when I turn 12, my father will talk to his father and agree on a price for me so we can get married."
Just read it. Seriously. Do some research. Check out things like the controversy surrounding the book of Abraham. Ask the questions surrounding the young boy Joseph being able to carry gold plates weighing a LOT as he ran and jumped. Ask the questions regarding why it was written in King James English when it was supposedly recorded 2000 years ago, then translated by Smith. Ask the hard questions of why it records animals in the Americas that didn't exist at the time.
I'm saying that in addition to the issues with the book of Mormon, look at the Koran -- look at what the writer of the Koran knew about Christianity and Judaism. He got a lot of things wrong. He clearly had no idea what Christianity teaches. But my statement was regarding Muhammed being illiterate, not young Joe.
I'm stating that each of the 66 books is attested to be valid by the remaining 65 books, in addition to history and archaeology. The BoM and Koran cannot compare.
I challenge you to actually ask the tough questions about it that I noted above.
They actually claim it to be ANOTHER testament to the Bible. That means that they also recognize the Bible, at least in theory. Yet, the 2 do contradict on some things.
The same kinds of problems exist for the Bible, and yet you do not ask tough questions about it. The Bible claims that the stars will fall from the sky like figs from a fig tree. The bible claims that the earth was created 6000 years ago and was flooded completely some time afterward. There is zero archeological evidence for the exodus from Egypt. The formation of the New Testament canon wasn't even determined until several centuries after the events they claim to describe. There are big problems with the traditional views of who wrote many of the books of the bible. Conservative Christians simply deny/ ignore these difficulties or claim some kind of satanic conspiracy by evil liberal scholars.
The same kinds of problems exist for the Bible, and yet you do not ask tough questions about it. The Bible claims that the stars will fall from the sky like figs from a fig tree.
It's figurative language. Anyone can see that.
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The bible claims that the earth was created 6000 years ago and was flooded completely some time afterward.
Got a verse that claims that? It really doesn't say that.
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There is zero archeological evidence for the exodus from Egypt.
Does there have to be?
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The formation of the New Testament canon wasn't even determined until several centuries after the events they claim to describe.
Nicea recognized the canon. The Early Church Fathers actually used and quoted the entire New Testament well before Nicea.
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There are big problems with the traditional views of who wrote many of the books of the bible. Conservative Christians simply deny/ ignore these difficulties or claim some kind of satanic conspiracy by evil liberal scholars.
The problem is, most of the people that bring alternative theories tend to be nuts. Or they have obvious alternative agendas.
Vizio doesn't get his info from his own research...He gets it from reading someone else's opinion and saying to himself, "Yup, that's what I want to see, so it must be accurate."...
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