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Old 02-08-2018, 05:25 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,710 posts, read 9,519,468 times
Reputation: 2350

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Your take on religion is incredibly messed up.

One, there ARE documents. Tacitus wrote about him, so did Josephus, Pliny the Younger, as did the Babylonian Talmud, and Lucian.

https://www.bethinking.org/jesus/anc...istian-sources
Christian apologists. What a surprise!

Tacitus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UgO8fAJVVM

Josephus = Forgery.
"We may remark here on the passage in Josephus which has occasioned by far more comment than any other, the so-called Testimonium Flavianum (Ant. XVIII. 63 - 4) concerning Jesus. The passage appears in all our manuscripts; but a considerable number of Christian writers - Pseudo-Justin and Theophilus in the second century, Minucius Felix, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Julius Africanus, Tertullian, Hippolytus and Origen in the third century, and Methodius and Pseudo-Eustathius in the early fourth century - who knew Josephus and cited from his works do not refer to this passage, though one would imagine that it would be the first passage that a Christian apologist would cite. In particular, Origen (Contra Celsum 1.47 and Commentary on Matthew 10.17), who certainly knew Book 18 of the Antiquities and cites five passages from it, explicitly states that Josephus did not believe in Jesus as Christ. The first to cite the Testimonium is Eusebius (c. 324); and even after him, we may note, there are eleven Christian writers who cite Josephus but not the Testimonium. In fact, it is not until Jerome in the early fifth century that we have another reference to it.
--Louis H. Feldman

Pliny = Writes about Christians who followed a 'Christ'. It's not evidence for your Jesus. It's evidence for Christians.

Talmud = Claims that Jesus was the bastard son of a Roman soldier Mary was a wh*re and Jesus was hanged.

"It has been taught: On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out, in front of him, for forty days (saying): 'He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favour, let him come and plead in his behalf.' But, not having found anything in his favour, they hanged him on the eve of Passover."
Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a"

Lucian. =
Lucian satirised Christians, several generations later. Lucian does NOT even mention Jesus or Christ by name so Lucian is no evidence for your Jesus, merely late 2nd century lampooning of Christians.

So, yet again, your claims are debunked. If you want to put forward any of the other writers that Christians cling to like a drowning man desperately trying to stay afloat by grasping at any passing straw in order to find evidence for their man-god such as Suetonius, Philo, Justus of Tiberius, Thallus, Phlegon, Valentinus or Phlegon, we can destroy those to.




Last edited by Rafius; 02-08-2018 at 05:58 AM..
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,372 posts, read 8,586,970 times
Reputation: 17828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
I do. the text of Hebrews says it was written before the fall of Jerusalem, and says a divine being called Jesus who was revealed in the OT sacrificed himself once and once only in heaven.

Which conflicts with the later, fictional gospels. That is why I now take the idea of a myth to man Jesus very seriously indeed.
I generally like your posts and you have every right to deny that "Jesus" existed. However, I have an equal right to believe that there was such a person, even though I do not believe he was anything more than a man.
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,995 posts, read 335,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I generally like your posts and you have every right to deny that "Jesus" existed. However, I have an equal right to believe that there was such a person, even though I do not believe he was anything more than a man.
I'm fine with that. I was just pointing out why I'm more inclined to the idea of myth to man. Sorry if I came across in an arrogant or unfriendly manner.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,345 posts, read 1,381,907 times
Reputation: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
I'm fine with that. I was just pointing out why I'm more inclined to the idea of myth to man. Sorry if I came across in an arrogant or unfriendly manner.
I personally think more legend than anything. Even if this Jesus man existed, you have to have credible, reliable and testable evidence that he actually performed actions of a supernatural kind to even give credence to anything biblical or any need to have some belief that guides your everyday life in my opinion.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,372 posts, read 8,586,970 times
Reputation: 17828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
I personally think more legend than anything. Even if this Jesus man existed, you have to have credible, reliable and testable evidence that he actually performed actions of a supernatural kind to even give credence to anything biblical or any need to have some belief that guides your everyday life in my opinion.
I totally agree. And as I have said previously, if the Christians who try to conflate these stories as provable truth would instead just say they take it on faith, I'd have a lot more respect for them. When people state an opinion, if they're honest I can usually respect that. But there are few things that bother me more than people who don't know the difference between opinion and fact.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
9,631 posts, read 3,992,034 times
Reputation: 6185
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I totally agree. And as I have said previously, if the Christians who try to conflate these stories as provable truth would instead just say they take it on faith, I'd have a lot more respect for them. When people state an opinion, if they're honest I can usually respect that. But there are few things that bother me more than people who don't know the difference between opinion and fact.
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