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Old 05-15-2010, 04:03 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasNick View Post
But, my question is this: Do we have any other written documents (aside from the Bible) from people who may have witnessed these miracles?
Look here:

Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources - Probe Ministries
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Old 05-15-2010, 04:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasNick View Post
Thanks padgett, but even the educated saw his miracles (Pharisees, teachers, etc). Surely, someone would have written something down and would have done everything in their power to keep it safe so their descendents can know the truth.

Also, the Bible wasn't written at the same time these miracles were happening...so I don't expect other witnesses to write down everything they saw right away. But you know how many Billy the Kid stories were written many years after his death? I like your analogy of the UFO stories...yes, more tends to be written long after some great event has passed.


There are Jewish writings that speak about Jesus and His miracles. Yet they say His miracles came from the Devil. So even when there are hostile witinesses that speak of Jesus, they to confirm that He had the power to work miracles.
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Old 05-16-2010, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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Originally Posted by BaronOB View Post
...and here it comes again. Tacitus, Josephus, Pliny, Seutonious, Lucian, Talmud. When will these people ever learn?
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Old 05-16-2010, 12:14 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
There are Jewish writings that speak about Jesus and His miracles. Yet they say His miracles came from the Devil. So even when there are hostile witinesses that speak of Jesus, they to confirm that He had the power to work miracles.
The Iliad speaks of Zeus and his miracles. It confirms that Zeus had the power to work miracles.
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Old 05-16-2010, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Earth, Milky Way
290 posts, read 328,265 times
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There are various documentaries and books on Jesus. Many of these claim that Jesus was not the only healer of the time - one documentary explained that Jesus' methods were often violent, and therefore, different.
Another theory is that many of these miracles were not actually miracles. One suggestion is that the Bible was a way of conveying information (possibly political) - so words like 'bread', 'loaves' and 'fish' all had their separate meanings. This would rule out miracles such as Jesus feeding the 5000.
Very few people could read and write so could not record Jesus' miracles...and many of the one's that could, didn't want to.
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Old 05-16-2010, 05:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
The Iliad speaks of Zeus and his miracles. It confirms that Zeus had the power to work miracles.
The Iliad is an epic poem that speaks of Greek legends. The Jewish writings speak of real history. BIG DIFFERENCE.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The Iliad is an epic poem that speaks of Greek legends.
The Jewish writings speak of Sumerian, Mesopotamian and Hebrew legends.

Quote:
The Jewish writings speak of real history. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Yeah! You wish.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
The Jewish writings speak of Sumerian, Mesopotamian and Hebrew legends.


Yeah! You wish.
For centuries the Jewish Talmud spoke of Jesus. So I don't have to wish for anything. It is a matter of historical record. The Talmud was written around the second century, and found there are a number of Rabbinical commentaries within it's pages. Because of the churches persecution of the Jewish people in Europe. The Jewish communities imposed a censorship on the Talmuds writings. In the year 1631 the Jewish elders of Poland stated. "We enjoin you under the threat of the great ban to publish in no new edition of the Mishnah or the Gemara anything that refers to Jesus of Nazareth... Consider the link below.

Historical Jesus III:Talmudic Sources
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Old 05-16-2010, 08:17 AM
 
1,554 posts, read 1,505,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasNick View Post
I've been reading the bible (New Testament) and am amazed at the sheer number of people who reportedly witnessed the various miracles that Jesus did.

But, my question is this: Do we have any other written documents (aside from the Bible) from people who may have witnessed these miracles? Surely, if it was such an important and supernatural event, people would have at least mentioned it in some journals, diaries or whatever. I would imagine, that if they did, most probably did not survive over the years. How many of us have notes and papers left over from our ancestors that lived in the 1700s? Surely, some of our great ancestors saw George Washington, but did they write this down? Only the great documents were saved..the US Constitution, papers written by politicans, etc...and even those documents are vastly dwarfed by the number of documents written about Jesus.

So, I'm curious. What else do we have besides the Bible that shows Jesus working his miracles?

Miracles of the apostle Jesus and others

The material or objective miracle of any apostle will disappear by time, and no witness will be immortal to tell the following generations that such miracles were done by that particular apostle.

Even people contemporary to the apostle himself: not all of them will have the opportunity to see the miracles: such miracles will be told to them by others who witnessed that.

Moreover, even those who see the miracles by their own eyes: not all of them will believe in God and the apostle who did such miracles.

Therefore, God did not give to Prophet Mohammed any objective or material miracle like the staff of Moses and the objective miracles of Jesus.

But God gave to Mohammed the Quran as a lasting miracle: fluent and eloquent in language, including many scientific citings unknown to people at that time: like the sphericity of the earth, and foretelling about future events in addition to the wisdom, admonition, description of the next afterlife, details of the law of religion ...etc. which cannot be imitated by any man.

So the lasting Quran is far better than the past objective miracles that will disappear by time.

As in the Quran 17: 88
قُل لَّئِنِ اجْتَمَعَتِ الإِنسُ وَالْجِنُّ عَلَى أَن يَأْتُواْ بِمِثْلِ هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لاَ يَأْتُونَ بِمِثْلِهِ وَلَوْ كَانَ بَعْضُهُمْ لِبَعْضٍ ظَهِيرًا

The explanation:
(Say [O Mohammed, to these associaters]:
"Even though the whole man-kind and genie-kind [: demon-kind] were to gather together in accordance to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like, even if they aided each other with support.")



An Hour with Ghosts

Last edited by eanassir; 05-16-2010 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
9,745 posts, read 13,462,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgoodChristian View Post
The bible is proof enough.
Why?
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