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I'm sure you can google "evidence of great flood", or "mountain top clay deposits" and come up with the same information I would.
Nope, the google results I get for "Evidence of great flood" show that what feeble evidence there is has been fabricated and/or misrepresented. Of well, sorry to break it to you but even the source you told us to go look up shows you're wrong.
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Rafius, I'm going to give you a reading assignment. Time to close the religious books you've obviously been reading, and begin reading scientific reports.
Which ones, specifically? Title, Author, Journal name and volume, publication date, please.
Perhaps Nostradamus was vague. That, either way has no bearing on the many things in our bible that are obviously true, and yet were authored thousands of years ago!
Ezekiel 38 and 39 is dang specific. Amazing...
I think these claims are on - topic and perhaps could be looked at. Some prophecies can be easily shown to be wrong and demonstrate that they were written after the events, not before.
Others require a bit of interpretation. It doesn't help that the symbolic and metaphorical language makes it hard to pin down to past events, like the buying and selling with the mark of the beast. To link it to Nero and some vague idea that trade was carried on using his coinage or perhaps authority is open to debate and it works just as well to link it to corporate capitalism and bar-codes, though frankly that is debatable, too.
The fact is that it is not as lock - down as those who believe in bible prophecy would like to claim. Out late pal C34 made a strong case for the prophecies of Israel returning, but even here, the process began even before the war and was to a certain extent self - fulfilling of the prayer 'next year in Jerusalem' rather than the history of the return from exile cast in the form of a prophecy and related to a context over 2,000 years later.
And yet, the last days prophecies centered around the state of Israel are having to be stretched out. We have seen Bible quotes stretched to relate to the firing of missiles into Israel and hopes to rebuild the temple, yet it isn't noticeably happening.
It does lead us to think that the prophecies could easily relate to Biblical times and not to the present day. Ezekiel 38 and 39, specifically. For one thing, Persia does not exist any more. Yep, gloss it as 'Iran' Cush as Egypt (although Sudan would be more accurate) and Put as Somalia and Ethiopia. And update swords, shields and armour to modern armaments. easy. And Sheba and Tarshish were important trading nations in the times of the invasions from the 'North' (from Assyria through Babylon and Persia to the macedonians) but Yemen and Spain or the Lebanon are hardly going to fit this prophecy.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-02-2012 at 08:39 AM..
The flood. The one that flooded the "known world" to the tops of mountains. Some decades ago, science found clay deposits near the tops of mountains that could only have been put there by flood waters. I'm sure you can google "evidence of great flood", or "mountain top clay deposits" and come up with the same information I would. I read about the clay deposits back in the '60s or '70s. It's been decades ago.
You need to do a bit more research. Seems you're bouncing the Bible off the wall and condemning everything in it, without looking at any of the "NON-religious research" that actually backs up much of what is written in the Bible. It, and the Qu'ran have been used by archaeologists for more than a century to find some of the fabled evidence of past civilizations. Has science proven the existence of GOD? No. But as a historical record...
Rafius, I'm going to give you a reading assignment. Time to close the religious books you've obviously been reading, and begin reading scientific reports. I'm sure you already know that theists claim that the flood happened in 2345 BC. The clay deposits at the tops of the mountains date 500 years earlier to about 2845 BC. So, take a look at the reports of a meteorite striking the ocean east of Madagascar about 4,800 years ago. If a meteorite, just 2 miles in diameter, were to strike 100 miles west of San Francisco, it would destroy about half of the world (according to a computer model presented on the Discovery Channel about 2 months ago). Some 4,800 years ago, one did strike the ocean, but is believed to have been more like 14 miles in diameter. It would have been far more than capable of flooding the "known world" of the authors of the Bible. To them, the whole world certainly would have been flooded. The water would have reached the tops of the mountains to deposit the clay there. Read about the "chevrons" of micro-fossils on Madagascar and Australia, how deep they go (about the height of the Chrysler building, I believe), and where they point in the ocean. It would have been an unimaginable impact to bring all that material up from the bottom of the ocean.
Then, look up "guanches". Many believe that an outpost of Cro-magnon may have survived the flood without the aid of Noah and the Arc. But, they would also have had an entire continent between them and the impact on the other side of Africa. I've found nothing about a flood in their mythology, but there was a period of very heavy rain, which would also be the result of the millions of tons of water launched into the atmosphere by an impact of that magnitude. The rain WOULD have been universal, just like all the smoke in the atmosphere with forest fires in Wyoming (in my lifetime) or the "year without summer" because of volcanic ash in the air when Krakatoa blew it's top, or the way planes in Europe were grounded because the volcano in Iceland. Except that we're talking about water and rain instead of smoke or ash particles.
Science tells us that a major meteorite striking the earth on land would be capable of sending up a dust cloud that would block out the sun for some 2,000 to 3,000 years, extinguishing all life on earth. Science also tells us that a meteorite strike in the ocean would be even more devastating. Do some research in science, not based in religious texts, and see how it compares, rather than jumping onto a conclusion and riding it over a cliff.
Rather than dispute the claims here, I would observe that, even if your meteorite - scenario is true and a massive impact produced a flood, that will disprove the Biblical flood which was totally different.
I believe that your clay on mountains 'evidence' in fact disproves it. I am willing to look in 'science... rather than jumping onto a conclusion and riding it over a cliff' as you picturesquely put it. I would suggest that it is not laid down in a sheet over the mountain but as strata. That strata, originally was a sea floor as evinced by fossilized worm - burrows in it. And that strata was gradually raised up over millions of years to form part of a mountain.
That's from what I have read and this might be something new to consider. Do please feel free to give a link to the data - not, please, a creationist website freely interpreting it.
The flood. The one that flooded the "known world" to the tops of mountains. Some decades ago, science found clay deposits near the tops of mountains that could only have been put there by flood waters. I'm sure you can google "evidence of great flood", or "mountain top clay deposits" and come up with the same information I would. I read about the clay deposits back in the '60s or '70s. It's been decades ago.
You need to do a bit more research. Seems you're bouncing the Bible off the wall and condemning everything in it, without looking at any of the "NON-religious research" that actually backs up much of what is written in the Bible. It, and the Qu'ran have been used by archaeologists for more than a century to find some of the fabled evidence of past civilizations. Has science proven the existence of GOD? No. But as a historical record...
Rafius, I'm going to give you a reading assignment. Time to close the religious books you've obviously been reading, and begin reading scientific reports. I'm sure you already know that theists claim that the flood happened in 2345 BC. The clay deposits at the tops of the mountains date 500 years earlier to about 2845 BC. So, take a look at the reports of a meteorite striking the ocean east of Madagascar about 4,800 years ago. If a meteorite, just 2 miles in diameter, were to strike 100 miles west of San Francisco, it would destroy about half of the world (according to a computer model presented on the Discovery Channel about 2 months ago). Some 4,800 years ago, one did strike the ocean, but is believed to have been more like 14 miles in diameter. It would have been far more than capable of flooding the "known world" of the authors of the Bible. To them, the whole world certainly would have been flooded. The water would have reached the tops of the mountains to deposit the clay there. Read about the "chevrons" of micro-fossils on Madagascar and Australia, how deep they go (about the height of the Chrysler building, I believe), and where they point in the ocean. It would have been an unimaginable impact to bring all that material up from the bottom of the ocean.
Then, look up "guanches". Many believe that an outpost of Cro-magnon may have survived the flood without the aid of Noah and the Arc. But, they would also have had an entire continent between them and the impact on the other side of Africa. I've found nothing about a flood in their mythology, but there was a period of very heavy rain, which would also be the result of the millions of tons of water launched into the atmosphere by an impact of that magnitude. The rain WOULD have been universal, just like all the smoke in the atmosphere with forest fires in Wyoming (in my lifetime) or the "year without summer" because of volcanic ash in the air when Krakatoa blew it's top, or the way planes in Europe were grounded because the volcano in Iceland. Except that we're talking about water and rain instead of smoke or ash particles.
Science tells us that a major meteorite striking the earth on land would be capable of sending up a dust cloud that would block out the sun for some 2,000 to 3,000 years, extinguishing all life on earth. Science also tells us that a meteorite strike in the ocean would be even more devastating. Do some research in science, not based in religious texts, and see how it compares, rather than jumping onto a conclusion and riding it over a cliff.
Have you heard of plate tectonics and continental drift? The global flood myth has several huge problems to overcome but the first one is water. There just in not enough water present on earth to flood the planet to that extent. Please explain where the water came from and where it went.
So you have to interpret the bible readings to suit the modern world's biases on intersubjective Dogma's at discussion. Someone is not speciaiized enough for an ensuing debate; the bible I would think is more for Agreement and tolerance (perhaps, discussion and tolerance).
The flood. The one that flooded the "known world" to the tops of mountains.
Did this flood cover the whole world, covering the highest mountain and drowning every living thing save for those on the ark. THAT is what is in question.
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Then, look up "guanches". Many believe that an outpost of Cro-magnon may have survived the flood without the aid of Noah and the Arc.
So what you are saying is that the Bible is wrong in it's description of a global flood that wiped out all life except those on the ark and therefore, your claim that 'the flood happened' is incorrect. We are not talking about meteor strikes here. We are talking about a global flood as described in the ark that destroyed all life save those on the ark.
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Which ones, specifically? Title, Author, Journal name and volume, publication date, please.
What ^he^ said. It's all very well you claiming that science supports the biblical flood and then telling me to go look for it. YOU are making the claim, YOU supply the evidence. I wonder what you would say if I took you to court and claimed that you stole my wallet and when the judge said 'What evidence do you have that he stole your wallet' I said...'well you need to do some research judge. The evidence is there you just need to go look for it'.
In the modern world we have so little private conscience even in court cases. The judge, the reading of the discussion is ordered to Be Trusted. We wonder if he has remorse.
In the modern world we have so little private conscience even in court cases. The judge, the reading of the discussion is ordered to Be Trusted. We wonder if he has remorse.
The flood. The one that flooded the "known world" to the tops of mountains. Some decades ago, science found clay deposits near the tops of mountains that could only have been put there by flood waters. I'm sure you can google "evidence of great flood", or "mountain top clay deposits" and come up with the same information I would. I read about the clay deposits back in the '60s or '70s. It's been decades ago.
You need to do a bit more research. Seems you're bouncing the Bible off the wall and condemning everything in it, without looking at any of the "NON-religious research" that actually backs up much of what is written in the Bible. It, and the Qu'ran have been used by archaeologists for more than a century to find some of the fabled evidence of past civilizations. Has science proven the existence of GOD? No. But as a historical record...
Rafius, I'm going to give you a reading assignment. Time to close the religious books you've obviously been reading, and begin reading scientific reports. I'm sure you already know that theists claim that the flood happened in 2345 BC. The clay deposits at the tops of the mountains date 500 years earlier to about 2845 BC. So, take a look at the reports of a meteorite striking the ocean east of Madagascar about 4,800 years ago. If a meteorite, just 2 miles in diameter, were to strike 100 miles west of San Francisco, it would destroy about half of the world (according to a computer model presented on the Discovery Channel about 2 months ago). Some 4,800 years ago, one did strike the ocean, but is believed to have been more like 14 miles in diameter. It would have been far more than capable of flooding the "known world" of the authors of the Bible. To them, the whole world certainly would have been flooded. The water would have reached the tops of the mountains to deposit the clay there. Read about the "chevrons" of micro-fossils on Madagascar and Australia, how deep they go (about the height of the Chrysler building, I believe), and where they point in the ocean. It would have been an unimaginable impact to bring all that material up from the bottom of the ocean.
Then, look up "guanches". Many believe that an outpost of Cro-magnon may have survived the flood without the aid of Noah and the Arc. But, they would also have had an entire continent between them and the impact on the other side of Africa. I've found nothing about a flood in their mythology, but there was a period of very heavy rain, which would also be the result of the millions of tons of water launched into the atmosphere by an impact of that magnitude. The rain WOULD have been universal, just like all the smoke in the atmosphere with forest fires in Wyoming (in my lifetime) or the "year without summer" because of volcanic ash in the air when Krakatoa blew it's top, or the way planes in Europe were grounded because the volcano in Iceland. Except that we're talking about water and rain instead of smoke or ash particles.
Science tells us that a major meteorite striking the earth on land would be capable of sending up a dust cloud that would block out the sun for some 2,000 to 3,000 years, extinguishing all life on earth. Science also tells us that a meteorite strike in the ocean would be even more devastating. Do some research in science, not based in religious texts, and see how it compares, rather than jumping onto a conclusion and riding it over a cliff.
Ok, explain this then:
The Great Pyramid at Cheops and the Djoser Pyramid were both built "pre-flood" but neither shows ANY evidence of being underwater.
Egyptians have CONTINOUS historical records dating back to both pre-flood and post-flood time yet, other than the usual flooding of the Nile, there is NO reference to a global flood.
There are also countless other pre-flood structures that bear no evidence to back up biblical claims.
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