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PS: Mickiel: you are being very forthright and honest today! Appreciated!
Re: the possible future election of a secular high official: It would be even more impressive if that atheist were an independent woman, perhaps a centrist-Conservative one, who clearly steps back from any faith-based politics. After all, we do have our Constitution, right?
Now: re Eanassir's predictable outburst of pro-violence Islamic rhetoric... (and this is exactly why the West eventually have to deal with them en-masse, and just "politically" of course ...)
Thats what they believe. They intend to enforce that as well: check out this Youtube video coverage of a Muslim street demonstration. It's from Luton, England!
Frightening! Eanassir, you truly have so very much to be proud of! Muslm religious tolerance, for instance!
Frightening is a massive understatement..I can't imagine people who have been welcomed into a country shouting for that same country to burn in hell...I feel so bad for that young woman, who's hometown has been taken over by these hypocritical extremist idiots...I think this invasion of the UK will eventually come to a very bad end.
The problem with that is that the leaders of communism try to create a cult of personality. They are not acting because of any atheism and many of them are not really atheist at all.
Measured Against Reality: Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Were Not Atheists (http://stupac2.blogspot.com/2006/10/hitler-stalin-and-mao-were-not-atheists.html - broken link)
Hitler was probably not atheist (Although it's unclear what he was as he wasn't a particularly honest individual and he cultivated an image of himself that we know didn't fit reality. Like some thought he didn't drink alcohol, but we have clips of him doing so. I think I read him being a vegetarian was maybe even a lie to give him a "clean living" image. I have no reason to think he was atheist though) but the other two come on. A tenet of Marxism is dialectical materialism and Marxists are generally atheists. I've never heard any solid reason to think Mao and Stalin weren't by what all indications they were, atheists. Atheists of their era I think had no problems saying that.
I'm not saying Atheism is Maoism or Marxism, or anything stupid like that, but Atheists certainly can have XYZ bad ideas. Or atheism can even be part of some goofball philosophy. I mean why not? All "atheism" means is disbelief in God or gods, right? We pretty much know atheism can be a part of a goofy philosophy even if one doesn't grant Communists. The Raelians don't believe in a God or gods and I don't think they accept anything they'd deem supernatural. Instead they believe in UFOs and cloning. Ayn Rand certainly had a controversial philosophy that was atheistic.
And in Mao's, or Enver Hoxha (not named), case they were against religion pretty much because they were against religion. Stalin sometimes co-opted religion for his benefit and several African dictators used religion to bolster "a cult of personality." And a violent religious cult-of-personality was far from new in the case of China. Hong Xiuquan's Taiping Rebellion was likely more murderous than Mao and was based in the idea he was Jesus's brother. Mao and Hoxha, on the other hand, were solidly Marxist/Revolutionary who felt religion inhibited progress or caused division or what have you.
I think that the predominant denigration of Atheists™* has more to do with the persistant, hostile and militant Christian belief that anyone who knowingly & willingly turns their back on Jesus (), that mythical figure who we're told suffered for us and is therefore "due" absolute respect from us all, is, of course and obviously, without ethics, morals or good value judgements[/i]. That type (i.e.: the Atheists™!)should be culturally expelled, or worse!
Thus the obvious and shrill default Christian position in so many statements regarding normal atheists is that if some historical event were catastrophic, murderous or just plain repressive and cruel, it must have been conceived and directed by Atheists™!!
Of course! Never by any nut-ball religious zealots! They are always loving, respectful groups and individuals, all so well read and of an even emotional keel.....
Any aggregation of individuals (including atheists...) with at least some common ideology as it's only descriptor...
(those who like to eat chocolates or carrots for instance! Hitler liked both, for example! SO... you angry carrot-eaters! Or worse: eaters of chocolate-covered carrots! You must adore Hitler!)
...would have it's statistical outliers, that is a simple statistical fact.
But what sort of world would specifically result from the gentle & respectful control by a group who in general simply refused to erect massive monuments to blind obedience, or those who refuse to chant what they are told when and what to chant, and or to "think" only as they are allowed to think?
The possibilities are very interesting and most likely positive.
For one, it can only happen in a properly educated world, which is unlikely since the church prefers gross illiteracy in the congregation (else, how do you explain this...
Not too many questions asked if the chantering people can't even read a book, but are taught (as is the case in ME Muslim schools as we speak, where the children are forced to memorize sections of the Qu'Ran by the well-known parroting rote-a-chant mode, but with strong punitive consequences for "thinking" added in) early what is "important"!
NOTE: (*: I capitalize, bold and color-highlight and "TM" the word Atheist™ because I refer there to the official accepted [but of course highly creative and unrealistic...] Christian personification and demonized version of what is essentially a non-belief. Their other repeated absurdity is to try to classify this non-belief as "a religion", in order, one supposes, to drag it down to the same muddy level as their own imaginary belief system. Else, why this subterfuge so often, pray tell?
This denigration of atheism is but a handy and convenient and completely made-up socio-political position taken up by our Christian brothers, reflecting more on their historical literacy deficiencies coupled with their earnest desire to never improve their own personal literacy, (nor their scientific one for that matter!), plus their ongoing deeply malicious desires to sow the seeds of mistrust and hatred in others, directed against all atheists simply for their non-beliefs (Oh, and I suppose the fact that atheists prefer factual empirical evidence generally obtained through rigorous and incontrovertible scientific studies, but for which there are no such studies as regards the Christian God...).
All of which only strengthens our factual arguments and easy demonstrations against organized religion. It all makes for intersting viewing by the other less-rabid Christian cohort here, some of whom then (OMG!) convert to Godless Heathen Devil-Tainted Atheism™. With good sound & defensible reasoning! (OMG 2; The Return of Common Sense!)
Much of what you say is right in that Christians do have unfair stereotypes of atheists. Although the idea that atheists are less likely to believe in moral absolutes, and more likely to favor sexual libertinism, is essentially correct. That they're on average less generous and more suicidal is also generally correct.
Now that they "kill for atheism" or "are criminals" is obviously wrong. If you're an atheist the laws of people might mean more to you and it would be foolish to kill for atheism. Atheism is about what a person isn't, not about what a person is. People kill or die for a motivation. In itself "No God" is not a motivation. It's not a motivation for anything more or less.
PS: Mickiel: you are being very forthright and honest today! Appreciated!
/quote]
Well you know me and you and other Atheist have had our dragouts and knock downs, but I see no reason to just outright slander Atheism with broad false characther asasinations that are certainly not true in my view.
I can fight people without taking cheap shots, and I can argue without senseless slander. I don't agree with the unbelief in God of Atheism, but God didnot make Atheist evil and immoral. There may be evil and immoral Atheist in this world, but so are there evil and immoral believers in God as well.
Human nature is human nature, and most humans engage in the same kinds of behaviors regardless of religious beliefs. Most people judge and condemn others, if not based on a religiously-defined moral compass, then based on their own personal moral compass. Most people hate those who represent the parts of themselves they hate. Mot people feel uncomfortable around someone who’s way of life is radically different. I don’t think that the complete eradication of religion or theism would cause war to vanish. People would just find different reasons to go to war. I think if we really want a peaceful world, we need to face our inner fears and prejudices—and that has little to do with what people claim to believe. Humans, regardless of religious or political beliefs, fight over resources, and create enemies in their mind in the absence of real ones. All of that is a part of projecting the fear that most people hold inside themselves, and until we evolve internally, the world will not evolve externally.
There is no need to speculate if a world could be entirely populated by Theist, it already has been a vast majority for centuries , so it is reasonable to speculate it could cover the entire earth.
Atheist are not investing in their movement wisely; they seem to think that way of thinking will simply " Catch on" and spread over the entire continent. Thats why it will remain a minority, because religious knowledge is increasing;
And religion knows how to wisely invest in their movement. Religion has more money, more people, more politicans and judges in their pockets, more legal backround, more study material; more support from the public; more history;
Its academic; its just the far more well oiled machine; it has no competitors in its class. Its the Super Giant!
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A better word, to be sure!
), that mythical figure who we're told suffered for us and is therefore "due" absolute respect from us all, is, of course and obviously, without ethics, morals or good value judgements[/i]. That type (i.e.: the Atheists™!)should be culturally expelled, or worse!
