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The only issue I can take with what I understand of your beliefs is this:
"Gods salvation" "All humans are saved because of Christ"
What do I need to be saved from.
What could have Jesus saved me from thousands of years before my birth.
(this tells me that no souls are born innocent and are predestined to sin)
Explain why you think Mankind is inherently sinful.
Explain the concept of sin.
Saved is an expression that biblically means " Preserved for another life." Salvation means to keep your life intact; as for future use. Don't think in terms of saved as in rescue, but moreso as in " Deliver you from one conscious life to another conscious existence." Think in terms of Redemption, you were given life in one stitch of time, in order to prepare you for another stitch of time.
Mankind is inherently sinful because of two reasons, one, we are born in the flesh and are not spirit beings; therefore our perminent destiny is not yet reached, because we not live in temporary vessels which are inherently weak. Secondly we are sinful because God placed us into an atmosphere of sin, and we cannot escape its influence.
The concept of sin basically is Gods way of showing what is oppisite of his way, which is goodness. God is basically involving humanity with sin in order for us to experience it for ourselves, to know the difference between good and evil, and yet use the sin to " Bake things within us as he molds our future consciousness." It is simply God teaching us an eternal lesson; he wants us to know what it would be like to live on our own, without him, under our own influence, directing our own paths and constructing our own ways of being; hes teaching that will always lead to sin, or ways that are not his ways.
And God is going to have his way, theres no doubt about that. And his way will rule his world; world without sin and evil. But you know, we have poroblems believing things; so God is rubbing our faces in this sin; and when hes finished; we ALL will know what world without God really means.
People will fight for rights and freedom regardless, religion is not required or relevant. In fact many of the things such people were fighting against were at one time biblicaly justified.
True when people like King wanted to communicate with the public they did it in Biblical language because that was what people were prone to listening to. In a world without religion they would have simply communicated their cause in another frame of reference.
There simply is nothing about, say, the anti slavery or anti racism movements that is unachievable if you take religion out of the picture. Such movements would still have had their "kings and Xs".
Similar to your error with science you are just finding people who did something who were ALSO religious and correlating them into a causation conclusion which does not hold.
"Person X did action Y and he was religious" is not, no matter how much you clearly want it to be, the same as saying "action Y is because of religion".
Oh people could continue on without religion, but there would be vast differences in our reality if we subtract religion, or the search for the divine. All you see is the negative side of that search, and you harp on it; ignoring the positive side of it, as if none exist. But you need that in your rant, why would you speak good of your enemy?
Mankind has perverted religion; perverted the search for God. The search in and of itself is a good thing, but the manner in which we have done it has introduced all the things you don't like. Religion is not inherantly evil; people introduce that. Religion is the best thing to ever happen to humanity, and the best thing that we ourselves have made worse. And eventually we'll do that to science, to education, to technology, and to everythingelse we get our hands on.
Science was born from religion, at its original core it was a search for the divine; and I maintain that to be historically true. No matter what it is now, it was created by religion.
From a vengeful, nasty god who screwed up his own creation then blamed them for it?
How on earth is there any logic to that?
If this great almighty was so omnipotent and omnipresent then he forsaw his own mess up...he could have have fixed it before it even happened. Instead he plays this vile game with humanity, berating them and cursing them.
From a vengeful, nasty god who screwed up his own creation then blamed them for it?
How on earth is there any logic to that?
If this great almighty was so omnipotent and omnipresent then he forsaw his own mess up...he could have have fixed it before it even happened. Instead he plays this vile game with humanity, berating them and cursing them.
What a ridiculous story for the feeble minded.
I think its Genius what God is doing; Pure revolutionary astounding misunderstood Genius.
ignoring the positive side of it, as if none exist.
It is not possible to ignore what is not there. I am aware of the things that religion has associated itself with in order to look good. I am unaware of, nor have you ever once given any, things that are predicated on religion or that religion actually gives us. As such I am not aware of any "positive" side above a few minor anecdotes, and certainly none good enough to pay the costs associated with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel
Science was born from religion
So you keep saying. Over and over. On a number of threads. But alas for you repeating a claim does not make it more true and you are yet to substantiate the claim in any way other than to find a list of people who were both scientists and religious. You call it "historically true" but have yet to cite any history to support it, or any science or historical documents or citations. Then when this is pointed out you just say you got it "from your consciousness" which to my ear sounds like "I just made it up".
Saved is an expression that biblically means " Preserved for another life." Salvation means to keep your life intact; as for future use. Don't think in terms of saved as in rescue, but moreso as in " Deliver you from one conscious life to another conscious existence." Think in terms of Redemption, you were given life in one stitch of time, in order to prepare you for another stitch of time.
Mankind is inherently sinful because of two reasons, one, we are born in the flesh and are not spirit beings; therefore our perminent destiny is not yet reached, because we not live in temporary vessels which are inherently weak. Secondly we are sinful because God placed us into an atmosphere of sin, and we cannot escape its influence.
The concept of sin basically is Gods way of showing what is oppisite of his way, which is goodness. God is basically involving humanity with sin in order for us to experience it for ourselves, to know the difference between good and evil, and yet use the sin to " Bake things within us as he molds our future consciousness." It is simply God teaching us an eternal lesson; he wants us to know what it would be like to live on our own, without him, under our own influence, directing our own paths and constructing our own ways of being; hes teaching that will always lead to sin, or ways that are not his ways.
And God is going to have his way, theres no doubt about that. And his way will rule his world; world without sin and evil. But you know, we have poroblems believing things; so God is rubbing our faces in this sin; and when hes finished; we ALL will know what world without God really means.
But who determines what is a sin? What source do we use? I hope it's not the Bible which you've said is not inerrant. Why is the flesh weak? Why do you feel it as unable to escape sin? How do you pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow and which not to?
But who determines what is a sin? What source do we use? I hope it's not the Bible which you've said is not inerrant. Why is the flesh weak? Why do you feel it as unable to escape sin? How do you pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow and which not to?
Mickiel will determine what's a sin. He just "knows" which parts of the bible are good enough to be followed.
Never mind the bible, in his own mind he is the worlds foremost authority on the source of religion, art, science, history, atheists and pretty much everything else...Apparently we are all just dummies, and our opinions or facts mean nothing to him.
I have pointed out that secular societies are morally superior to theocracies but it bounced off of him like water off of a duck.
What source do we use? I hope it's not the Bible which you've said is not inerrant.
It is the bible firstly, then any other source that has common sense
Why is the flesh weak? Why do you feel it as unable to escape sin? How do you pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow and which not to?
The flesh is weaker because its weaker than the influences of evil and lust, which are just more powerful than us. Thats why we can't escape them, they are greater than we. Love, Joy, Peace, Hope, sin, Evil, Lust; all are greater than humanity.
You know how to pick and choose what parts of the bible are correct by study, education in both biblical and secular history, experience, common sense, a dictionary, and a little help from God ( If you have it) would really help.
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