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And Sunnysee when you get your harp, dont forget to remember that you are going to get terribly bored playing it and sitting on a cloud for all eternity.
Anyway...
Jackmccullough
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For instance, the idea of human DNA somehow "vibrating" at a certain frequency: if this were the case there would be evidence to support it, but there isn't.
You obviously have not come across or heard about acupuncture which is widely practiced in both China and the west and even has dedicated hospitals which use it in their treatments. Now, acupuncture meridians cannot be proved, but they can be measured but they cannot be imaged. So.. what are they? The Chinese think they are energy lines.
Homeopathy is not yet explained, yet there is a London hospital of Homeopathy and many medical doctors are also homeopaths. Diluting something so many times cannot possibly have any effect on the patient, yet it does and what is morw, the weaker the solution, the stronger the treatment. Maybe this is energy vibrational medicine?
Kirlian photography has been developed and demonstrated by the Russians for decades and it is supposed to show the life force or energy field around objects. Science has not got there yet, otherwise we would be using this as a diagnostic technique. However, as soon as someone reputable comes up with a way to make the technique appear rational and 'scientific' rather than a quack method we will have it. Dont hold your breath though.
I encourage people to stick to the confines of reality too Jack. Oh, and by-the-way... what exactly IS reality?
The real shame is that you completely missed my point. Buddhism today, is not as 'pure' as you might like to think it is in actual practice. Like it or not, customs and culture play an important role in how it is shaped and practiced in different areas. Saying pure Theravada practices are still available in the world, ESPECIALLY in the West, is amusing, as if to think western cultures and customs don't enter the picture.
Sorry, if I missed your point. But you only try to look Buddhism from a lay person's point of view who never bother to pratcise it seriously. I did not say there are elements of animistic practices in some forms of Buddhism, which are tainting the pure practice. Yes, indeed there are, despite being discouraged its practice by the elder monks. Buddhism may have started to decline after the first 2500 years of the dispensation period as has been predicted when many such practices like those you have mentioned started contaminating the prestine Buddhism. The practice of Vipassana meditation has declined in Ceylon/Sri Lanka which used to be a seat of prestine Buddhism once. Then, followed by countries like Thailand and Burma as its people become more sophisticated and materialistic. The more materialistic one is, the more likely for one to practice such contaminated practices. There are still prestine practices of Vipassna in Burma although contaminated practices are overwhelming. Those from the West who are following Buddhism are mostly converts, and as usual, converts are often more serious and practise it steadfastly than those who are born in this religion. For myself, I was born a Buddhist, but never bother to practice it before as I've believed more in science than religion and moreover, I was put off by those animistic practices until I came across reincarnation in my family and have encountered some evidence on life after. Then, I started studying all religions theorectically at first in searching for an answer on life after death, came across Buddhism and put it into serious practice for over 20 years. Now, I do not hold any doubts on the practice as well as in its teachings.
Not so, although I certainly don't know every Buddhist in the world. Regardless, you seem to be making wild assumptions of who you think I'm most familiar with. Shame on you! LOL! True, there are plenty who practice the customs, but don't seem to be hardcore Buddhists. Many do practice a blend of Buddhism and animism. But I'm also personally familiar with all sorts of Buddhists, including many monks, including those in senior positions, at Wats, as well as others whom I regard as being more devout. My wife of many, many years was born and bred as a Buddhist. I hold respect for all of them, regardless of their position in society, but I have no personal interest in adopting their religious beliefs and they don't try cramming it down my throat. We're all very good friends.
Mind you, a position and being a Buddhist monk do not necessarily make a person enlightened on the teachings unless you practise it steadfastly yourself. Human is a human and has cravings and passions, and of course, materialistic by nature. Judging from what you have written, it is quite clear that you have never practised Vipassana seriously.
Now you're mincing words and making more assumptions. Tell me something I don't already know. Are you suggesting that Buddhism predates Hinduism? I said nothing about the Buddha's search of various religions. There are differences, of course, but there are also similarities. It seems pretty clear that Buddhism has roots in Hinduism, enough to show a relationship, although there are plenty of additions that make them quite different from each other. The same thing can be said for Judaism and Christianity.
Just point out where I have made this suggestion. Everybody (well versed in this subject) knows that Brahmanism predates Hinduism, but the name Hinduism, based upon those (Hindus) who dwell along the Indus river has been used rather recently as this word was not known during the times of the Buddha. It was called Brahmanism at that time as it was preached by Brahmins.
I never said Buddhism endorses animism. I'm saying that in real life, at least around SE Asia, it is very common to find Buddhism and animism mixed together. That's related to local and even regional culture and customs. I already indicated that I can't speak about what happens in other countries though. What you previously said was, "I think animisim contaminates some Buddistic practices...", which is probably true. But seem to disregard or ignore that animism certainly pre-dates Buddhism, at least in SE Asia. As such, animistic cultures were most certainly "contaminated" by virtue of the introduction of Buddhism to those cultures. There's a saying about Thai people: "You can always take a Thai person out of Thailand, but you can't always take Thailand out of a Thai person." There are some beliefs and traditions that are simply not going to change, which is precisely why animism is mixed in with Buddhism, at least in Thailand, if not most of SE Asia.
Since I am of the christian Persuasion I do not believe in reincarnation. I believe that when past-Life regressions are done and the person speaks of detailed memories of past lives that it is not the person that had that past life, but an alien spirit/demon within that lived it and is inside the person, speaking.
There are no such things as demons. They too are an invention of the mind. Domonic possession only seems to affect christians, irony much?
First of all, I hardly ever meditate ... certainly have not mastered Vipassana (Insight) meditation ... I suffer from what the Tibetans call "Monkey Mind" - too much internal chatter!
I started meditating only when I turned 45, not before. So, it's never too late. Meditation is the only way to discover the 'truth'. You can learn Buddhism , but it will be only a learnt/taught wisdom, you need to experience it yourself to see if there is any truth in it. Ignorance (avija in Pali) is the worst enemy, and wisdom is the best friend.
Second, I covet things. I go to the mall and I always see things I want! Buddhists aren't supposed to be materialistic - yet I am!
That's in theory, but we all are humans. You will only become less materialistic when you have experienced wisdom (panna in Pali) through meditation.
I eat meat, and I know that you are not required to be a vegetarian ... but I eat a lot of junk.
Vegan practice is not essential in meditation, but it can help you a lot; simply as it may cause you less tired after a meal, it may also cause less libido as rich diet can arouse a sexual desire more.
Talk about corrupted by animistic beliefs - I wear one of those Buddhist amulets around my neck that has a little window and you see the carved stone Buddha inside - these are so popular in Thailand. It was given to me by a Thai friend when we were browsing the famous amulet market outside Wat Suket (or was it Wat Sathet?) near the Golden Mount in Bangkok.
Wearing an amulet is a form of protection one may seek when one is weak, but when one has wisdom, one may no longer need such protections.
Being such a pathetic and pitiful Buddhist I think I'm going to be reborn as a Hungry Ghost in my next life!!!
A rebirth in this woeful state is over 75% certain if someone hasn't got wisdom; however, it may be a short and transitional state conditioned by the last thought prior to death as popularly known in Tibetan literature as 'bordo' and may reborn in a more stable state as per your previous volitional deeds.
Homeopathy is not yet explained, yet there is a London hospital of Homeopathy and many medical doctors are also homeopaths. Diluting something so many times cannot possibly have any effect on the patient, yet it does and what is morw, the weaker the solution, the stronger the treatment. Maybe this is energy vibrational medicine?
So as not to overload your mind I'll just mention this one point.
First of all, I hardly ever meditate ... certainly have not mastered Vipassana (Insight) meditation ... I suffer from what the Tibetans call "Monkey Mind" - too much internal chatter!
Second, I covet things. I go to the mall and I always see things I want! Buddhists aren't supposed to be materialistic - yet I am!
I eat meat, and I know that you are not required to be a vegetarian ... but I eat a lot of junk.
Talk about corrupted by animistic beliefs - I wear one of those Buddhist amulets around my neck that has a little window and you see the carved stone Buddha inside - these are so popular in Thailand. It was given to me by a Thai friend when we were browsing the famous amulet market outside Wat Suket (or was it Wat Sathet?) near the Golden Mount in Bangkok.
Being such a pathetic and pitiful Buddhist I think I'm going to be reborn as a Hungry Ghost in my next life!!!
LOL! No need to worry Clark. You're as normal as anyone. There are no good or bad Buddhists in terms of people, only good or bad actions, which is the whole point behind the justification of "making merit".
No question that the amulet market around the country thrives and tends to be quite profitable. Seems like nearly every Wat issues an amulet of one sort or another, usually featuring the Buddha, or a monk who's become noted for one thing or another. It's amazing to me that most, if not many people in the kingdom acquire various amulets with the thought that they'll be provided with protection from harm, bad health, and assured of good luck, fortune, success in love, etc. I've had some folks claim they can protect from accidents (which is why you commonly see certain figurines, garlands and inscriptions in cars, taxis, buses, etc., and can even protect a person from a bullet. The latter is probably not a smart idea to test out just to see if it works. I've asked people, including my family members, what if you do have an accident or are shot with a bullet and are injured or killed? The reply is almost always that the amulet wasn't genuine. It'd be pretty unfortunate to come to that conclusion after the fact. And if someone does escape with their life, then they attribute that as "proof" that the amulets work. Some forms of Christianity do the same thing in terms of erecting crosses, statues, artwork, jewelry, pendants or figurines of various saints (like St. Christopher to protect travelers, etc.). It isn't anything that's solely unique to Buddhists.
While it has nothing to do with Buddhism, it's a merging of animism and Buddhism which is related to the cultural practices and traditions of a particular region.
Reborn as a "Hungry Ghost"? Phi Kra-sue? Phi Lok? Phi Peta? Or Phi Ronald McDonald? No problem! Just take up residence at a busy location in a luxury spirit house of your very own and you'll be daily provided with all the food, drink, flowers, and the comforts of home you could ever want!
Fine print disclaimer: Furniture, furnishings, pets, and doll companions included with the spirit house tend to be small and non-working and are usually made of plastic, wood or clay.
Sorry, if I missed your point. But you only try to look Buddhism from a lay person's point of view who never bother to pratcise it seriously. I did not say there are elements of animistic practices in some forms of Buddhism, which are tainting the pure practice.
Don't worry about it. It's okay. Just curious but are you a practicing elder Buddhist monk? Or are you also a lay person? Don't get me wrong. Whatever you feel comfortable with is fine. But don't you think it's a bit lofty to start assuming what I, or anyone else, may or may not view? That's not exactly "walking the center path" is it? A person doesn't have to be a Buddhist to have an understanding about it. It gets down to personal choice of what's acceptable or not.
Allow me to once again requote (from Post 52) what you stated about tainting (contaminating): "I think animisim contaminates some Buddistic practices...". So now you're trying to tell me that's NOT what you said?
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Yes, indeed there are, despite being discouraged its practice by the elder monks. Buddhism may have started to decline after the first 2500 years of the dispensation period as has been predicted when many such practices like those you have mentioned started contaminating the prestine Buddhism.
Your contention here is that pristine Buddhism has been contaminated by animsim. I'm saying the reverse can also be said, that the introduction of Buddhism into an animistic culture basically contaminates the animistic traditions. That's not to mean the beliefs of others are good, bad or indifferent. It's simply being realistic by taking into account what was first present before the introduction of Buddhism into an animistic society.
While monks, elder or otherwise, may not feel animism is valid, to say elder monks discourage the practice simply isn't true. Permit me to give you an examples. A number of years ago, this made a splash in the Thai news.
A village in the Northeastern Region of Thailand was convinced that some sort of evil ghost was causing problems with the locals. The monks from the local Wat were called on to help them resolve the problem. The monks performed a ritual to trap the ghost in a specially prepared bamboo tube. When the deed was done, the trapped ghost was removed and presumably confined at the Wat. The monks acknowledged that there was really nothing to worry about, but that the ritual was conducted as a way to help the locals feel relaxed. The alternative was to do nothing and let the villagers continue worrying. That wouldn't exactly put the monks in a good light with the locals. Under the circumstances, it was the best choice to do the ritual. At the same time, by conducting such a ritual (which was considered meaningless) it reinforces the practice of animism.
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Those from the West who are following Buddhism are mostly converts, and as usual, converts are often more serious and practise it steadfastly than those who are born in this religion.
This notion demonstrates nothing. In regard to Hinduism, loads of Westerners have "adopted" beliefs and have made pilgramages to various ashrams to bolster their beliefs. It has not been uncommon for various gurus to be of the opinion that the Westerners have no real idea about the beliefs. For example the practice of the Hari Krishnas in the US had little to no resemblence to what is practiced in India. Things like Hinduism and TM became especially popular (faddish) after the Beatles spent time there with the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, describing it like an LSD trip without taking LSD, in effect, that it's all in your mind.
I'm in no position to declare, one way or the other, that Western converts are more serious about Buddhism than those born into it, especially those who are born into societies where Buddhism is considered the norm in terms of relgious views. Nor can you make such a declaration. That doesn't mean that Westerners can't be serious about it, but who's to say? The bottom line is that it's really a personal thing, isn't it?
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For myself, I was born a Buddhist, but never bother to practice it before as I've believed more in science than religion and moreover, I was put off by those animistic practices until I came across reincarnation in my family and have encountered some evidence on life after. Then, I started studying all religions theorectically at first in searching for an answer on life after death, came across Buddhism and put it into serious practice for over 20 years. Now, I do not hold any doubts on the practice as well as in its teachings.
20 years, eh? My wife has been a Buddhist all of her life. Born, raised and has lived it for over 60 years. So has everyone else in her family. Regardless, I'm glad you feel comforted by such teachings. I can agree that there are some very good points about it. So are you saying that animistic practices are okay with your beliefs? I apolgize, but I'm not getting a very clear understanding from you about that. I got the impression earlier that you felt it has contaminated Buddhism (that is, in regions where animism is or has been practiced). There are differences between reincarnation and animism, but not a lot of difference. Animism can also hold the view of reincarnation.
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Mind you, a position and being a Buddhist monk do not necessarily make a person enlightened on the teachings unless you practise it steadfastly yourself. Human is a human and has cravings and passions, and of course, materialistic by nature.
Judging from what you have written, it is quite clear that you have never practised Vipassana seriously.
I fully agree that being a Buddhist monk is no guarantee of enlightenment. Yes, they (even the enlightened ones) are all subject to the same human conditions as everyone else. After all, they are human beings as well, aren't they?
You are correct. I have never practiced Vipassana at all. I have no need to, so why should I practice something I don't want to? It doesn't make me any better or worse. That doesn't make me ignorant on the matter, or disrespectful to others. I've never yet run into a monk or abbot who I didn't like or felt I could not hold a discussion with or learn a few things from. Some are very good long-time friends. They've always made me feel welcome and we equally reciprocate in the same way to them. We're all on the same journey through life. I can't say the same thing for all lay persons though. There have been a few I can do without.
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Just point out where I have made this suggestion. Everybody (well versed in this subject) knows that Brahmanism predates Hinduism, but the name Hinduism, based upon those (Hindus) who dwell along the Indus river has been used rather recently as this word was not known during the times of the Buddha. It was called Brahmanism at that time as it was preached by Brahmins.
I used the term Hinduism primarily as a generic description. But, yes, I would agree. In any case, as you indicate, they are connected. Technically, from an historical perspective, the roots date back to at least the bronze age. Buddhism dates back to around the 6th century BCE. No question that it's old. Hinduism is thought to have its roots as far back as the 20th century BCE, making it much older than Buddhism. I think it's fair to say from where the roots of Buddhism originated. On the other hand, I think it's also fair to say that animism predates all such belief systems. So, what contaminated what? To be fair, it isn't really about anything being contaminated, but rather how belief systems developed over time. All You Need to Know About Hinduism: Brahmanism & Early Hinduism
The doctrine of reincarnation, the ceaselessround of rebirths, is not, as many people imagine, confined to Buddhism and Hinduism. It is found in some form or another in many religions (including Gnostic Christianity) and philosophical systems and in many parts of the world.
(quoted from Francis Story's article, The Light of the Dhamma, 1960, Vol. VII, No. 2 ) and available online from the following link: buddhism.ndirect.co.uk
What do you think of this? Personal experiences, ideas and discussions, and also constructive criticism from non-believers are welcome! Thanks!
Sidney
The wisdom of Buddha was such that he knew that to help someone going through a death-to-life (spiritual death or otherwise) experience, it takes guidance and compassion. Hence, The Tebetan Book Of The Dead. Christians absorb the deity of Christ on the cross, and they have him as a source of guidance and compassion through the very same death-to-life experiences. The only way to cleanse of sin is through Jesus(spiritual death-rebirth). And the only way to become a Buddha is to be spiritually reborn into one. Jesus embodies the whole idea or phylosophy of spiritual rebirth. Like all of far eastern phylosophy, Jesus IS life eternal.
Good question! Let us suppose the population of humans and animals is growing and we have an issue of the source. Some religion mentions that there are spirit worlds both terrestial and extra-terrestial. This may be a source but may still not be enough to fill the population gap.
The other possible source is the world of insects. Population of human and animals may be ascertained using counts and census, but nobody can determine how many insects, large or small with any certainity. This is a huge source that would not replinish easily.
I'm pagan. I came to believe in reincarnation long before I realized my path. Of course there are new souls. And its not an endless cycle. Each lifetime we grow and at some point we do not return, when we have reached true understanding. A new soul simply has a lot to learn.
And some lives we retrurn quickly. I believe I did from my last very brief life. And some we take time in summerland to heal the wounds a little first.
From the time I was a very small child in a very secure home, I was fascinated by survival tales, especially of children, and most of all deeply identified with those telling them on an intuitive levels. I could mentally walk into their world. I have been drawn to certain places in history and feel this impulse that I need to read about them. I believe that last life, I died very young in trauma, not really processing it and that need transcended into the next life.
I've had my own experiences of security vanishing now and come to some kind of understanding, and when I did I felt a great deal of spiritual peace I can't explain, except the child leftovers which came to me were finally settled.
Reborn as a "Hungry Ghost"? Phi Kra-sue? Phi Lok? Phi Peta? Or Phi Ronald McDonald? No problem! Just take up residence at a busy location in a luxury spirit house of your very own and you'll be daily provided with all the food, drink, flowers, and the comforts of home you could ever want!
Maybe I'll be reborn as Phi Beta Kappa.
Phi Kra-sue?!?! Seriously??? Isn't that the ghost that is a flying bloody decapitated head with it's entrails still attached? Ew. No thanks.
I'm going to work on practicing the Brahma Vihara to avoid that fate (after all, my Dhamma name is Metta.
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Reborn as a "Hungry Ghost"? Phi Kra-sue? Phi Lok? Phi Peta? Or Phi Ronald McDonald? No problem! Just take up residence at a busy location in a luxury spirit house of your very own and you'll be daily provided with all the food, drink, flowers, and the comforts of home you could ever want!
