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Old 02-08-2012, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,455 posts, read 12,490,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind over Chatter View Post
If there is no fall, there is no need for a savior. The NT supports the OT fall and need for a savior.
We are what we are. We need to be made right with God. To insist on a 6000 year old earth makes thinking people stumble and reject Christianity. Talk about doing the devils work!

You do realize that Jericho is over 10,000 years old? And to say that the would is 10,000 years old is not scriptural. A Literal rendering of Genesis places the year 4004BC. Please, I've been thru this stuff a million times. Hebrew Mindset!
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:52 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,923,097 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind over Chatter View Post
If there is no fall, there is no need for a savior. The NT supports the OT fall and need for a savior.
Again you are contradicted by the understanding many have for Jesus as their Savior while accepting evolution as a plausible explaination for the dynamics of life on earth.

Those who have rejected the bible and use evolution as a reason never actually needed evolution to reject it in the first place.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:00 PM
 
1,743 posts, read 2,153,886 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
The Bible is incompatible with reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
The same way I arrived at the conclusion that The Lord of The Rings is not compatible with reality.

I read it.


Quote:
Besides.......
These days, the term "reality" is relative.
Like..........the pothead's idea of "reality."
Nope, reality is reality. A pothead in his own reality may think himself weightless but de facto reality is still there to show him otherwise.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:03 PM
 
1,743 posts, read 2,153,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
We are what we are. We need to be made right with God. To insist on a 6000 year old earth makes thinking people stumble and reject Christianity. Talk about doing the devils work!
Thinking people should reject Christianity long before the age of the earth or evolution come into the equation.

That's not stumbling, that's standing strong and upright.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:14 PM
 
2,770 posts, read 2,589,838 times
Reputation: 3048
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
Ever since the advent of Darwin, geology and other various factors in the past couple hundred years, some Christians have been scrambling to make an ancient text (that did not contain Darwinian or factual Geologic data concerning the age of the Earth) fit the most recent findings of science. To do this, they must re-interpret the text of the Bible to mean the opposite of what it actually says.

One small example - highlighted by the above poster:
The first Creative Account has God creating things in the space of 6 days. To interpret what kind of day ("yom") the writer is using, one must use the context. The context points to a literal 24-hour day - no matter how unscientific this may be. Genesis makes lots of crazy claims that are just scientifically absurd, but it's wishful thinking to interpret them away as if they are not what the ancient writers meant.

I don't think the account in Genesis is factual - but I'm also not going to try to make it fit into modern scientific ideas, so that some believers may still claim that the Bible is true (when reinterpreted to their pleasure). If a religious believer feels there is a God, and that God is represented in the Bible, then so be it - stick by your God, I suppose. Anything else cheapens the image of God as presented in the Bible. Was God so weak that a literal 24-hour day was not enough time to create something? That is the usual sense I get from some Christians who use the "one day is a thousand years" argument. IN addition - even were one day a thousand years, this is still not enough time for the evolutionary and geologic ideas that the reinterpration is being made for (granted, the original interpretation was to combat the dashed hopes of an imminent return of Christ - but the point still remains).
Good post.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,916 posts, read 29,770,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
To insist on a 6000 year old earth makes thinking people stumble and reject Christianity. Talk about doing the devils work!
I knew that if I was patient enough, I'd find something you and I could agree on, Mr5150. That time has come.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:53 PM
 
69 posts, read 185,859 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The geologic record disproves the bible's claims that there was no death in the world.

Even if you rejected that, then you are confronted with the undeniable fact that humans always lived outside of the Garden of Eden, which contradicts the bible.



The geologic record proves thorns and thistles existed long before humans existed.



The geologic record also disproves the bible's claims.



Actually the Hebrew word refers to a red clay, not dust.



The bible story was stolen from the creation stories of older civilizations, which claimed creation took millions of years.



The 10 Commandments were stolen from the Egyptians. They come from the Egyptian Book of the Dead, written about 1,000 years before Joseph ended up in Egypt.



It doesn't matter what Jesus said. In the first place, he's biased and in the second place, much of what he said never came true. He claimed his followers would be performing miracles daily. They are not.



That's right. The bible is as worthless as the paper its written on.



There was never a need for salvation.

Your god isn't very smart.

How long did it take Yahweh to figure out that you needed salvation?

Amused...

Mircea
Your blatant attack is... astounding. I love it when people claim not to care but then argue like no body's business when trying to disprove. If you disapprove so much, why argue? I'm a Christian and I believe the creation story but I don't disbelieve evolution. God is great and mysterious and trying to understand Him, is like trying to figure out a never ending math problem. There was a study several years ago (I saw it once but then never saw or heard of it again) that proved almost every human on the planet was related through one female. I guess that study is continually ignored. Both those who believe in God and those who don't pick things they decide to ignore. Neither is right and neither is wrong...those are the facts.
I personally feel that man is not perfect and therefore the tools man create are imperfect. Mans tools say that the earth is a certain age, but if man isn't perfect and the tools man created aren't perfect then how can you say what you believe is any more right than what I believe. The fact of the matter is that you can't. It doesn't make you any smarter than me, it doesn't make me any smarter than you, it makes us both intelligent in our own right. You believe what you want and stop criticizing those who choose to believe differently, those Christians who attack you need to stop also though. Attacking you does nothing more than allow you to argue back which is obviously a waste of time.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,714,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind over Chatter View Post
In the following ways:

The Bible says that there was no death in the world until Adam and Eve sinned. Evolution says that man came about from many years of creatures reproducing and dying.
The Bible says that thorns and thistles were a result of mans sin and fall. Evolution says that there were thorns and thistles long before man came on the scene.
The Bible says that Eve was made from Adam’s rib. Evolution says that woman evolved seperately from an ape like creature just like man did.
The Bible says that man was made from the dust of the ground. Evolution says that man evolved from an ape like creature.
The Bible says that everything was created in 6 days. Evolution says that everything came about from millions of years of evolution.

The Ten Commandments back up the creation story: Exodus 20: “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

What does Jesus say about the creation story? Mark 10:6 “But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female.'’ It sounds like Jesus accepted the creation story. What does Paul say about it? Romans 5: 12 “Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man” That’s Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45 “And so it is written, the first man Adam was made a living soul.”

You see if you remove the creation story from the Bible, you might as well get rid of the whole Bible because the whole Bible supports and is dependent on the Genesis creation story being true. If there is no literal creation story, there is no Adam, no original sin, no need for a second Adam, Jesus and no need for salvation. Your salvation testimony verifies that the creation story in the Bible is literal and true.
I would add that in Genesis it states that fruit bearing trees and plant life were created on the 3rd day. The sun and heavenly bodies were created on the 4th day.

Evolution recognizes that fruit bearing trees could not survive without sun because the temperature on earth would be at absolute zero.

Little boo boo from a primitive civilization trying to figure things out from their limited viewpoint of the world.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,714,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
To God " a minute is but a thousand years and a thousand years but a minute" - that explains it all - 6 billion years or 6 days...there is time line here that is humanly perceptable....We jump on this bit about the world being created in 6 days - that's the ancient primative human interpretation of time...to GOD time does not exist..but to us it does so we bicker about what is not real.
But if one living creature died before "original sin" that totally discredits the theology of salvation.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,502 posts, read 37,021,963 times
Reputation: 13973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach
To God " a minute is but a thousand years and a thousand years but a minute" - that explains it all - 6 billion years or 6 days...there is time line here that is humanly perceptable....We jump on this bit about the world being created in 6 days - that's the ancient primative human interpretation of time...to GOD time does not exist..but to us it does so we bicker about what is not real.
That is just one of the many lame things that is just made up to try and make the bible stories fit reality...It is an epic failure in my opinion.
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