U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 02-20-2012, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,550,873 times
Reputation: 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
....'cause that is the only place he exists....
You have it Sir!
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-20-2012, 08:13 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 6,150,804 times
Reputation: 58115
Well as an agnostic I can't really say what I believe about "design", it seems that there is more evidence for evolution so I'll have to go with that for now. But then again a creator cannot be ruled out simply because he/she/it cannot be proven. So just because the OP is "for" a god, doesn't mean he's wrong, just faithful. After all, faith is what is required.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,550,873 times
Reputation: 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
But then again a creator cannot be ruled out simply because he/she/it cannot be proven.
...but every minute of every day, YOU rule out thousands upon thousands of things that can't be proven. I trust that you rule out the existence of fairies, pixies, leprechauns, mermaids, flying elephants, one-legged ants that ride bicycles, mice that sing opera, horses that build houses, battery operated trees that grow money.....you reject them all because they can't be proven.....why is it any different when it comes to gods?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 08:48 AM
 
124 posts, read 16,780 times
Reputation: 50
Because in the US people believe religion deserves "respect". Which is ridiculous.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 09:03 AM
 
22,863 posts, read 10,747,029 times
Reputation: 3854
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
Personally, I view the concept of intelligent design as bunk.
The minimal requirement for intelligent is that it be intelligible, period . . . not perfect or any other idealistic criterion.
Quote:
We evolved what we needed to survive thru a process called adaptive mutation. Nature, in her infinite wisdom, saw what we needed and eventually provided it.
In what important way does that differ from . . . "We evolved what we needed to survive thru a process called adaptive mutation. God, in His/Her infinite wisdom, saw what we needed and eventually provided it." ???
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,060 posts, read 19,399,240 times
Reputation: 10110
Quote:
Originally Posted by distraff View Post
(1) It is an indisputable and yet remarkable fact that many natural objects appear to have been designed for a purpose: the eye for seeing, the hand for grasping, etc.
I submit for your humble consideration the tick: a parasite that doesn't appear to serve any useful purpose except to spread Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever and Lyme Disease.

What say you to that?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,616 posts, read 17,784,879 times
Reputation: 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The minimal requirement for intelligent is that it be intelligible, period . . . not perfect or any other idealistic criterion.In what important way does that differ from . . . "We evolved what we needed to survive thru a process called adaptive mutation. God, in His/Her infinite wisdom, saw what we needed and eventually provided it." ???
Good grief, are you still on that nature=god kick?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 6,702,779 times
Reputation: 3625
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
People who do not believe in divine intelligent are usually people who have not had any true witness of the Living God Lord Jesus Christ, and who will never ever have witness unless they turn from their ways a seek truth of the Living God ....

So what is truth ? Truth is what ever the True living God says and Him alone ,........ One body part of man that is designed for a purpose for the Lord God is the brain, as Man was chosen and created by God for interaction with Him, as the other animals have lacked ......
My my... how very assumptive of you, hljc! PS: the brain has been fairly well tracked back now in terms of it's abilities, it's complexity (by sheer mass and component complexity alone). But we also see smaller, lighter and less complex brains in God's "lesser beasts". (How frickin' arrogant that one is, and yet, you devout CHristians still go for it... remanding chimps, apes, cheetahs and polar bears to that demeaning cohort...) We also see glimpses of increasing cause & effect thinking in such luminaries as crows and ravens, chimps and even chickens! How odd, huh?

As well, surprising recent studies in Australia have found a truly vast population of different species of tiny oceanic organisms that exist down below the ice, with only their own interactions with their surrounds and available niche to guide them on. Oh, and of course, they are of absolutely no effective use to us men, or to much else either. Food for something, yes? But particularly food for thought! The critical type, of course, not the auto-rote-a-chant bleeting-sheeple type.

So again: why would they be there?? OK: let me tell you, hljc: Because, given the opportunities extant down there, undisturbed or observed until now by man's microscopes, they simply took advantage of, and evolved into, their ever-changing eco-system. As well, there's all sorts of the now obligatory DNA tracking now going on, and guess what they will find? (and ohh boy, then you'll have some 'splaining' to do!).

But... uhmmmm... why again would or did your wooden God take time out to "design" and then insta-poof all these "useless undt lesser organisms" down there, where, in all likelihood, no-one would EVER find them? He didn't do it anywhere else, and also: how did Noah get the necessary mass quantities of several tens of thousands of them tiny things into his precise Antarctic defined saline-marine-environment ecosystem [the ocean's salinity varies considerably all over the globe, btw. Bet'cha didn't know that, huh?] tanks on his wonderously special and sea-worthy ()Ark?

(Of course, i know that you duly note that the huge changes in oceanic sdalinitiy accompanying any grande mixing of all the world's water (plus a few additional zillion-quintrillion liters of fresh water out of nowhere... POOF again?...) would instantly kill off such tiny fragile beasties, not to mention all the fish, crabs, lobsters, octopi, and so on and so forth......). Frick! Those Damned Curious Aussies; why can't they just leave well enough alone? Theyz thinknig again! What the heck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rationalism View Post
I love the god of the gaps, even though this particular gap has already been filled.
Actually, I'm thinking an appropo typo here would also work: the God of the Apes; the missing "G"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The minimal requirement for intelligent is that it be intelligible, period . . . not perfect or any other idealistic criterion.In what important way does that differ from . . . "We evolved what we needed to survive thru a process called adaptive mutation. God, in His/Her infinite wisdom, saw what we needed and eventually provided it." ???
Because Mystic, as you well know, there's literally no plausible or rational reason for such entity's direct or even indirect involvement, and as well, given those immutable and pretty well studied "Laws of Nature", {or, OK: "Lawz'o'Goawd" which you prefer...} it just all comes together. Naturally. No tinkering required once the "Start Game" button is/was pressed some 14 billion years ago, a few billion....

Why, after all, would God want to be burdened with all those trillions of different"designs", when a simple & now easily observable and relatively simple natural system as DNA-mutation or variation-driven adaptive speciation could and did do it all (...for Him, one might insist. buy WHY?)?

Now I will openly admit to you, not hiding anything here, that the answer to "Who then designed that simple DNA system? It's so unique and works so very well!" is not just assumptively obvious, but as well, it does not need to auto-default to a God. WHY so?

After all, as you and I, even with both our v. special brains ( ) linked together, still might not have enough braincell horsepower to "suss it all out", but there is obviously some sort of a Final Answer out there. You, however, seem to want to just stop the investigative process at this Point of Selective Convenience, rather than I, who will happily wait it out. Natch, I won't be here on this current level of consciousness (nor will you, btw...) nearly long enough to see that day...

(That's also pending Doc Hawking, das IQ MeisterMind, letting fly with some more undeniable "Aha!" moments of undeniable truths, [frankly, I suspect he is actually holding some as yet unseen cards to use just before he calls it quits. Now that would be quite funny, non?]...

But after all, his impressive IQ [I've heard it may be > 230 or so...!!!] is still way less than yours and mine combined (), and look where that has gotten the two of us to date? Pretty much no-where, huh? No revelations out of C-D and it's cohort of Blithering Sheeple-Bleeter Intransigents, as you also well know and better understand them than I, you having willingly wandered amongst the bleeting flock over on the darkened Christian side! [My God, man! How do you withstand such gross intransigence and unthinking bleetery?]

There simply may be a "natural" limit on our species-inherent intellectual abilities to ever figure it out, but that doesn't ERGO default to a God of the Gaps answer. You should know, appreciate and also accept that!

Otherwise, perhaps you might explain why my well experienced 21 yr old felid, Dottie the Wonder Cat,[see my profile pic of her in my son's arms...and please do note the glow from her hyper-Intelligent eyes? ] has not yet learned enough of the English language to "tell me where it hurts", and also why she initially looks so very quizzical!

But then that look changes to her being thoroughly dis-interested (with the exact same look most Christians get on their faces whenever I try to explain simple Evolution to them...), when I try to explain how a micro-beam of 632 nM Wvl of coherent light, impinging on a quartz-resonance-controlled-rotational speed plastic disc that's covered with a code sequence made of micro-tiny physical pits, can then be "read" and subsequently instantly converted to a glorious HD signal showing me the evolutionary pathways the cheetah species took in it's wonderous evolution. Fascinating btw! She doesn't and/or can't get it, just like you or I visa-vis the beginnings of The Universe. Yep, we can speculate, but not conclude. just yet.

But I also do know you don't deny Evolution. After all, you're intelligent and also generally considered (but perchance selectively?) well-read! And for the most part, only in partial denial!

Otherwise, the way things are going these days in science, there's simply too many new and amazing co-contributory (and apparently, "co-conspiratorial"!!! ) they'll yowl...) discoveries that continue to surface, esp. with that durned DNA genome mapping going on! I for one am not content nor ready to yet call it quits on "natural inquiry", since that would seem to be a self-inflicted intellectual end-point for me.

And you? You ready to call further inquiry "quits"? to be open to other options that may well lay outside our current intellectual abilities? Like a parallel universe, one that did, yup, somehow just "poof" into existence out of some cosmic level of self-aware impatience!

Or, we're "just" the PhD experiment by some alien teenager (but how did he/she/they get here, one then wonders. It just constantly boggles the mind, and probably always will! Perhaps that's why you seem to have given up, since it must hurt to have to wrangle with these larger questions.

Or, it's simply unquestionably too much for us Earthlings, like pondering infinity. Which ain't no "wave form", btw....

(PS: Me? I'm immune from such intellectual hurt, since, well... that's another story.)

From my seat here, it certainly seems that you have given up functionally, preferring the ease of that warm cozy chair of Godly belief. But I could be wrong.

Take it away pal! But always remember that durned key word "Why?"

Last edited by rifleman; 02-20-2012 at 11:20 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 11:51 AM
 
278 posts, read 150,495 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
People who do not believe in divine intelligent are usually people who have not had any true witness of the Living God Lord Jesus Christ, and who will never ever have witness unless they turn from their ways a seek truth of the Living God .... So what is truth ? Truth is what ever the True living God says and Him alone ,........ One body part of man that is designed for a purpose for the Lord God is the brain, as Man was chosen and created by God for interaction with Him, as the other animals have lacked ......
Thanks for your views. Any arguments to support them?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Ashburn, Va
3,197 posts, read 1,488,651 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
People who do not believe in divine intelligent are usually people who have not had any true witness of the Living God Lord Jesus Christ, and who will never ever have witness unless they turn from their ways a seek truth of the Living God .... So what is truth ? Truth is what ever the True living God says and Him alone ,........ One body part of man that is designed for a purpose for the Lord God is the brain, as Man was chosen and created by God for interaction with Him, as the other animals have lacked ......
You mean the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and Atheists when you're referring to the "other animals?"

When are all of your "true witnesses" going to get on the same page? You'd think since all of these folks know what God wants he would have spelled it out in no uncertain terms what he excepts from his creations.

So when all Christians can agree on what God wants 100% then we'll listen.

Last edited by mikebnllnb; 02-20-2012 at 12:25 PM..
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top