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I think the question was if a person can be an atheist and believe in Jesus. You raise another question. Can you believe in Jesus and not the 2nd coming.
I have a better one, "Can you believe in the tooth fairy and still be considered logical?"
Tooth fairies are real. They are usually parents. And given the evidence that a child finds under their pillow in place of their tooth, its perfectly logical for a child to believe in them.
So obviously this question seems astounding to most at first glance. Of course one cannot be a good Christian and still maintain their Atheism, correct?
Well, maybe not.
I've been here quite awhile and have seen many of you define just what it means to be Christian. So lets think about that for a few moments. How do we define a Christian? The overwhelming answer that I have received here on this board and elsewhere is that if one believes in the teachings of Christ and makes a sincere effort to follow the path he set for us in the Bible, the rest is just semantics and that person by all means is Christian.
So as many if not most of you know, I am atheist. I do not believe in a literal God or even a literal Christ in the sense that he is the Son of God. However, when reading the Bible, it is obvious that many of the teachings of Christ are moral and just. I do believe that the fictional depiction of Christ is a hero to society, providing a true example of how to live a clean and moral life. I do follow the words of Christ to the best of my ability and with the utmost sincerety. Not because I am scared of the hell fire that will surely burn me for etetrnity if I don't, thats all fantasy, but because I, as a rational human being, want to do what is best for the well being of myself, my family, and my fellow humans.
So, I beg the question, even a proclaimed Atheist, could I still be considered Christian? i.e. an Atheist Christian?
I feel the same way you do about the Christ story and was basically wondering the same kind of thing earlier today......can I be a proponent of Christianity (the Christ-like kind) and still be an unbeliever? I mean, the story of Jesus Christ may be fictional, but what a great example of a human being he is and it teaches us many things about honesty, humility and love.
The reason I was wondering this is because of my son, who is a devout Christian. I encouraged his going to church and believing the Bible (although I don't now) because it's just a darn good way to learn about morals and how to be an upright person. I have to give Christianity that much because it does build character and encourage right living. I'm talking about true Christianity, not lip service.
So I think we can most definitely be in favor of the Christ story and church-going and whatever else is good and real about Christianity and still be an unbeliever. I would never discourage anyone from being a Christian, especially if it changes their life in a positive way. Maybe it's not real, but it sure can be a good guide on how to live, if one needs that.
I've often wondered what my character would be like if I hadn't been raised Christian. Would I still have the same morals and compassion? I'd like to say yes to that, but I'm not really sure about it. So I am still a proponent of Christianity, it's just not for me. But I don't feel as though I made a mistake bringing my son up as a Christian, I think it's a good thing. For him and his personality, it's just what he needs. It's hard to put it into words because it's kinda complicated, but I think it may be possible to be an atheist/agnostic Christian.
So, I beg the question, even a proclaimed Atheist, could I still be considered Christian? i.e. an Atheist Christian?
No.
Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and many other eastern philosophies are just that; philosophies and not religion. Sure, some have taken these philosophies, and corrupted them for their own personal gain turning them into quasi-religions, like the Dali Idiot has, but purists know differently.
You are certainly free to subscribe to the teachings of Jesus, but he was a discombobulated idiot and from a philosophical point of view, his teachings are incoherent and often contradictory, lacking any consistency.
You would do much better to separate what Jesus says from the drivel espoused by his disciples.
Here's an excellent example:
Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities.
Why? On what basis?
Romans 13:1 For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God.
According to that, Jesus appointed Hitler and also Stalin, Pol Pot and every other great evil that has existed, and so my question to you is:
"Why would want to worship or even follow someone who appoints evil dictators?
If Jesus empowers Hitler to reign, then doesn't that contradict everything that Jesus taught? I mean Jesus says, "Love your neighbor" and then appoints a brutal dictator who slaughters your neighbor.
Romans 13:2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will incur judgment.
For me, that makes being an atheist totally irrelevant, because I both reject and resist "such authority," so I am damned no matter what I do.
None of that changes the fact that the majority of what we believe and accept is NOT personally verified by us.
My point is that we can personally verify scientific theories if we choose to do so. It is up to us if we're curious enough. Some people are just too lazy or busy or whatever. But that's their issue.
This is entirely different from religious claims, which are not verifiable at all. Instead, they are believed in completely based on tradition and authority and nothing else. Somewhere someone in authority makes a claim and BOOM!.. it becomes religious doctrine for centuries or millenia.
Jesus is the founder of a religion that has been influential in history, to say the least. That much we can all agree on. However, it is impossible to prove that Jesus is the son of God. That has to be 100% taken on faith.
Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 02-26-2012 at 05:50 PM..
I can see what you are saying but I still have to respectfully disagree. It's my opinion that it's illogical to believe anything that you have not seen or experienced for yourself. People will tell you all kinds of things exist, even people you trust. But you can never know if there are right until you've experienced it yourself. Illogical is believing something just because someone else told you it was true.
By this logic, I assume you do not believe in the holocaust? Landing on the moon? Do you believe I am a human being? Do you be;ieve anything you see on your local news? How so, the great majority you did not experience for yourself.
By this logic, I assume you do not believe in the holocaust? Landing on the moon? Do you believe I am a human being? Do you be;ieve anything you see on your local news? How so, the great majority you did not experience for yourself.
No I cannot personally verify that any of those things actually happened. I would never claim that they didn't happen either. I don't believe anything I see on the news. I don't disbelieve it either. Why so dualistic my friend?
So obviously this question seems astounding to most at first glance. Of course one cannot be a good Christian and still maintain their Atheism, correct?
Well, maybe not.
I've been here quite awhile and have seen many of you define just what it means to be Christian. So lets think about that for a few moments. How do we define a Christian? The overwhelming answer that I have received here on this board and elsewhere is that if one believes in the teachings of Christ and makes a sincere effort to follow the path he set for us in the Bible, the rest is just semantics and that person by all means is Christian.
So as many if not most of you know, I am atheist. I do not believe in a literal God or even a literal Christ in the sense that he is the Son of God. However, when reading the Bible, it is obvious that many of the teachings of Christ are moral and just. I do believe that the fictional depiction of Christ is a hero to society, providing a true example of how to live a clean and moral life. I do follow the words of Christ to the best of my ability and with the utmost sincerety. Not because I am scared of the hell fire that will surely burn me for etetrnity if I don't, thats all fantasy, but because I, as a rational human being, want to do what is best for the well being of myself, my family, and my fellow humans.
So, I beg the question, even a proclaimed Atheist, could I still be considered Christian? i.e. an Atheist Christian?
I think it's a valid question if you can be more specific in your definition of a Christian.
1. Should you define Christian as someone who believes in Jesus Christ in any way, not necessarily as told in the Bible, then YES.
2. If you define Christian as the one who believes in Jesus Christ, and follows or believes every word in the Bible, then it can be YES or NO.
3. If Christian is a follower of the Bible by any standard and pay less emphasis on the words of Jesus, then it could be NO.
Many scholars have pointed out that the present day Bible is corrupted with many changes from the original Greek version, taken into account many ancient Gospels (gnostic) have been destroyed and the present day version may reflect what the early Christian Church wanted its followers to know or believe. Jesus may be potrayed differently in those ancient Gospels and less emphasis may be given to the concept of the God as in the present day Bible.
The popular phrase of Jesus ' turn the other cheek ' contradicts the Mosiac Law 'Eye for an eye' which is supposed to be the word of the God!
Therefore, one can still believe in Jesus even if he or she doesn't believe in the God.
My point is that we can personally verify scientific theories if we choose to do so. It is up to us if we're curious enough. Some people are just too lazy or busy or whatever. But that's their issue.
This is entirely different from religious claims, which are not verifiable at all. Instead, they are believed in completely based on tradition and authority and nothing else. Somewhere someone in authority makes a claim and BOOM!.. it becomes religious doctrine for centuries or millenia.
Jesus is the founder of a religion that has been influential in history, to say the least. That much we can all agree on. However, it is impossible to prove that Jesus is the son of God. That has to be 100% taken on faith.
It is not entirely true as some religious claims are verifiable. For instance. most religions will mention about afterlife or existence of a parallel universe with those errie ghosts and supernatural beings!
If you are curious enough, not too lazy or busy and practise transcendental (samatha) meditation with good one pointedness concentration for a sustained period you will be able to get in touch with those beings. So, it is verifiable if you have the will.
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