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Which are the "XYZ" reasons to believe we are not a creation or that there is no sign of intention in our existence?
I'm asking this because I see (some?) Atheists being "sure" there is no creator or no intention, and this makes conflict with what I've seen and understood so far about our existence.
I know there's no clear sign about we being intentional or that we are a creation, I agree, but I haven't yet clearly seen the contrary.
I know how we became to be, the basic forces of the Universe and etc.
I can see how our Universe evolves with such indifference of our existence and that we are still alive because a Meteor hasn't yet hit us.
But I haven't yet understand what or how (some?) Atheists comfortably "see" there is no creator, when I can't see clearly how the basic forces of the Universe "bothered" in pushing basic blocks of molecules in to complex functional organisms...
Ok, I may even grant the forming of organs and body parts although I still don't see how they could form randomly(numbers?, statistics?) but when I REALLY get stuck is in the...
REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS... <-- this, the fact that random events managed to form organisms AND their ability to replicate, so, not only evolving and getting stronger to survive the organism in itself but the ability to replicate and perpetuate its specie.
AND having 2 genders, with enough ATTRACTION elements to motivate replication.
hmm, now that I'm thinking, is it replication actually the most important and basic part of organisms?, that through replication is how everything else came to be(stronger, functional, etc.)?, well, I actually know this, but didn't looked at it this way, until I wrote this.
^^, how?, where can I see an explanation of how this is unintentional?
Please, spare me the Bible scripts, that is just noise to me, I'm talking about sources or people who like to rely in science..., not supernatural or mystical ideas.
Last edited by giorgiomax; 02-27-2012 at 04:25 AM..
You are asking some really big questions! I don't have a lot of time this morning, so I'll just point you toward some of the books that helped me a bit.
The Selfish Gene - Richard Dawkins
Cosmic Jackpot - Paul Davies (also sold under the titile "The Goldilocks Enigma")
Also, I haven't read, "The Blind Watchmaker" by Dawkins, but it also might be helpful to you.
Best of luck exploring your world view!
NoCapo
P.S. The two Dawkins books are concerned primarily with biological evolution, the Davies book is more astrophysics/cosmology.
I'll take a brief stab at this, but I have to leave for work and can't give too long of a response right now.
In short, it all boils down to DNA and gene regulation and various sorts of random mutations (either in the nucleotide sequence itself or with pieces of chromosomes). In particular, having a solid understanding of the gene regulation involved in embryonic development will help tremendously.
Which are the "XYZ" reasons to believe we are not a creation or that there is no sign of intention in our existence?
There are no reasons.
This question is too easy, but it is nice to have easy questions so early in a retiree's morning.
Look at the beautiful world aorund you. Do you sense there is a "creator" or a "sign of intention in our existence"?
If No, then you are an Atheist.
If Yes, then you are a Theist. You will probably form your own theological beliefs or join an organized religion. You may even choose to celebrate Festivus.
If you cannot give a Yes or No answer to my simple question, that's fine. Give yourself time and you will gravitate toward the answer that is right for you.
Ok, I may even grant the forming of organs and body parts although I still don't see how they could form randomly(numbers?, statistics?) but when I REALLY get stuck is in the...
REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS... <-- this, the fact that random events managed to form organisms AND their ability to replicate, so, not only evolving and getting stronger to survive the organism in itself but the ability to replicate and perpetuate its specie.
AND having 2 genders, with enough ATTRACTION elements to motivate replication.
You need to study the evolution of sex and sexual reproduction. This is an area that has competing hypotheses.
These links are only an introduction to the complexity of the issues:
We still don't know how abiogenesis was started (this is not evolution, they are two separate things). We may probably never know, but we can always speculate and that's it. Atheism is simply rejecting the notion of god. I reject the notion because there is no evidence.
Empirical evidence is how we live our life, so the same applies across the board for me. I would be happy to believe in fairies and santa clause if there were empirical evidence. Until then, I don't believe in it.
...Ok, I may even grant the forming of organs and body parts although I still don't see how they could form randomly(numbers?, statistics?) but when I REALLY get stuck is in the...
REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS... <-- this, the fact that random events managed to form organisms AND their ability to replicate, so, not only evolving and getting stronger to survive the organism in itself but the ability to replicate and perpetuate its specie.
AND having 2 genders, with enough ATTRACTION elements to motivate replication...
Good point.
Our bodies have a natural reaction to injury... to produce a scab, which then heals and then produces scar tissue to prevent further injury. This happens throughout our body naturally (except when this process is intercepted like in plastic surgery)... But there is one place in the woman's body that this doesn't happen, and because it doesn't happen, we were able to be conceived, nurtured and grown within our mothers' wombs.
This question is too easy, but it is nice to have easy questions so early in a retiree's morning.
Look at the beautiful world aorund you. Do you sense there is a "creator" or a "sign of intention in our existence"?
If No, then you are an Atheist.
If Yes, then you are a Theist. You will probably form your own theological beliefs or join an organized religion. You may even choose to celebrate Festivus.
If you cannot give a Yes or No answer to my simple question, that's fine. Give yourself time and you will gravitate toward the answer that is right for you.
Thank you, I get your point.
I'm actually doing that, looking the world around me, and because I know Science is the actual Man(you and me) organized to see and understand our surroundings, they're like my eyes to see beyond my reach, so is fascinating that I can "see" more thanks to science.
Let me put in another vote for The Blind Watchmaker. It is written to be very accessible to the layman, and seems to be available in most public libraries.
Since you asked in a forum post, you also deserve a response in the same format. Here is how I see it.
1. There is no proof that we were created. All of the various religious creation stories are simply that, stories. If you step back a bit, the creation of Eve from Adam's rib is just as silly as the Greek gods being the children of titans, which are in turn the children of Gaia (earth) and Uranus (the heavens). I doubt anybody believes this myth, but it is just as believable as Adam, Eve, gardens and serpents.
2. Lets go more positively. If you look at geology, the oldest fossils we have are single celled organisms. A few million years later, you get simple multi celled organisms. And so forth. This is a pretty strong proof that complex life evolved from simpler forms, as we can see the process. Ultimately we get cool things like dinosaurs, and even later mammals and humans. Although there are gaps in the fossil record, that is of little consequence. We can see the overall progress.
3. As for the evolution of sexual reproduction, that is best answered by a pro. But the evolution of eyes, organs, brains, all that other cool stuff has been addressed. I am sure sex organs has been as well.
My question back to you is why does this particular thing bother you? Nobody can know everything. However, I am willing to take the word of biologists that they have answers for most of these things.
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