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Woo. Almost bought into your... Stuff. Ehem I disagree. You're entitled to your own opinion. I believe religion can be used as a tool for evil. I believe if you remove religion the outcome could be less, more or the same amount of evil just with a different tool. The rest is unrelated to the thread. Thank you for your contribution.
Not really dealing with much of my post there, but at least it is back on topic from you so that is good. Some of the evil would be repeated, as I said. The evil that has nothing to do with religion except that people retrospectively justify it using religion. That evil would still happen but they would just justify it in other ways.
The issue however is evil that actually IS caused by religion. I have listed some general and specific examples of this. One has to ask if there was no religion is there any pathways that could lead to the same evils and in most cases there is not. Even if there was it would be some small % of people who got there.
Take the disagreement over how to use the Alaxa mosque to attain eternal paradise, take the people who think medical treatment is an affront to god, take the people who have no basis for resolution in discourse because their world views are not attached to reality in any way, take the people who think nuclear war would be a good thing because it would speed us on our way to paradise.
I simply see no causal pathway to such conclusions in a world without religion. If you can then I am agog to hear you adumbrate one.
Not really dealing with much of my post there, but at least it is back on topic from you so that is good. Some of the evil would be repeated, as I said. The evil that has nothing to do with religion except that people retrospectively justify it using religion. That evil would still happen but they would just justify it in other ways.
The issue however is evil that actually IS caused by religion. I have listed some general and specific examples of this. One has to ask if there was no religion is there any pathways that could lead to the same evils and in most cases there is not. Even if there was it would be some small % of people who got there.
Take the disagreement over how to use the Alaxa mosque to attain eternal paradise, take the people who think medical treatment is an affront to god, take the people who have no basis for resolution in discourse because their world views are not attached to reality in any way, take the people who think nuclear war would be a good thing because it would speed us on our way to paradise.
I simply see no causal pathway to such conclusions in a world without religion. If you can then I am agog to hear you adumbrate one.
Fine if I must. I'm sure you know what tribalism is. To stay accurate I will post an explanation which is that tribalism refers to the possession of a strong cultural or ethnic identity that separates one member of a group from the members of another group.
Oh wait there's also Ethnocentrism which refers to making value judgments about another culture from perspectives of one's own cultural system.
Some of the most evil deeds in history were due to extreme cases in both tribalism and ethnocentrism. The same as the extreme cases you refer to in religion. Both would still exist without religion and both would continue to lead to atrocities as they have in the past.
There is no "must" here. This is a forum and posting on it is, was and always will be a choice. You can back out any time.
However your reply does not address anything I said at all. I have said many times in this thread, apparently without you noticing, that I am aware of other evils in the world not caused by religion. So exampling them just makes my point for me. We are agreed in this.
My posts however are about the evils directly caused by religion for which there is no secular or non religious equivalent.
Again this thread is about evils caused by religion. There are many. So I am not sure what you are even disagreeing with any more. Worse, I am not longer convinced you are sure either.
There is no "must" here. This is a forum and posting on it is, was and always will be a choice. You can back out any time.
However your reply does not address anything I said at all. I have said many times in this thread, apparently without you noticing, that I am aware of other evils in the world not caused by religion. So exampling them just makes my point for me. We are agreed in this.
My posts however are about the evils directly caused by religion for which there is no secular or non religious equivalent.
Again this thread is about evils caused by religion. There are many. So I am not sure what you are even disagreeing with any more. Worse, I am not longer convinced you are sure either.
I said my thoughts on this. If you don't understand by now there's no hope for you. This is your opinion and that was mine. I'll take it as you disagree. Thanks for the attempted lesson on how to post on a forum.
I said my thoughts on this. If you don't understand by now there's no hope for you. This is your opinion and that was mine. I'll take it as you disagree. Thanks for the attempted lesson on how to post on a forum.
You are tenacious and I admire your attempt to inject reason and rationality into the discussions. Lurkers will benefit from your reasoned approach to the OP. But I can see from this post that you have encountered an intellectual brick wall. Unfortunately there are two types of posters for whom reason does not work. Those who are set in their unreasoning credulity and those who are set in their unreasoning incredulity. Discussion does not penetrate and is pointless with either type. Use the ignore feature . . . I find it saves a lot of aggravation.
You are tenacious and I admire your attempt to inject reason and rationality into the discussions. Lurkers will benefit from your reasoned approach to the OP. But I can see from this post that you have encountered an intellectual brick wall. Unfortunately there are two types of posters for whom reason does not work. Those who are set in their unreasoning credulity and those who are set in their unreasoning incredulity. Discussion does not penetrate and is pointless with either type. Use the ignore feature . . . I find it saves a lot of aggravation.
You're right. I guess I felt obligated to stay in a thread I started. But I guess I'll leave it be since this will always be open to the various views of the members of City Data. The original poster will no longer respond to this thread. Thank you and Good night
I said my thoughts on this. If you don't understand by now there's no hope for you. This is your opinion and that was mine. I'll take it as you disagree. Thanks for the attempted lesson on how to post on a forum.
No problem. Anything I can do to help improve your posts and hence the forum as a whole I am more than happy to contribute. I would not be so quick to give up on making people understand your position just because you failed to date either. I am all ears to hear your arguments, and I am presenting my own counter ones for consideration too. Let us not pretend that ones failure to make another person see their perspective is somehow a failure on the part of the target however. Going around calling it, or someone, hopeless is likely not going to move any discussion forward.
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