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Old 03-27-2012, 08:10 AM
 
10,764 posts, read 5,218,396 times
Reputation: 754

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Correct. While it is possible to claim that the Bible story was the original and the Sumerian one derives from it, understanding of the archaeology, the records of the Mesopotamian myth, the way it (and NOT the genesis version) was adopted and adapted by the peoples of the ancient middle east makes it a more evidence -based suggestion that the Sumerian Flood was the original and the genesis version derived from it, not the other way around.
The epic of Gilgamesh dates from about 4,000 years ago. The flood of Noah about 7,000 years ago. Noah wrote down everything about the flood and passed it on to his three sons. The epic of Gilgamesh came from one of the offspring of one of the three sons 3,000 years after the flood. Moses had the original account.

 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:21 AM
 
2,934 posts, read 1,449,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Yea, and all you folks have done was presented nothing of quality regarding evidence the world-wide flood could not have happened, just a load of 'Lying for Satan' apologist websites.

Yea, it must not have happened because rafius SAID it didn't happen.

You have the order wrong - IF you are going to claim that the Biblical Flood Story is factual, then you must present evidence that is compelling. You must carry the burden of proof. You have not done so.

Nobody here is obligated to prove to you that the Flood did NOT happen - that's crazy logic. The Burden of Proof is upon you, and always has been. Burden of Proof: The philosophic burden of proof is the obligation on a party in an epistemic dispute to provide sufficient warrant for their position. (from Wikipedia).

Several proofs are needed from you:
1) That the Book of Genesis, Chapters 6-9 specifically, is an accurate witness to the evidence of the events it purports to report.
2) That the Account in Chaps. 6-9 contains no internal conflicts.
3) That the Account in Chaps. 6-9 contains no historical or scientific errors.
4) That a historical event can be "proven" by just one (technically, two) source.

In the end, you resort to calling those asking for you to shoulder your Burden of Proof as "Lying for Satan' lol? That's a whole 'nother topic altogether with it's own Burden of Proof. Clever: "Oo, those people disagreeing with me - with THE BIBLE! They are in league with the devil!"
I shouldn't be surprised to read that. But I have to remember - you are working on pre-assumed ideas and dogma, and providing compelling rationale for these dogma (if you even recognize them as influencing your rhetoric, and that there is a need to justify them first) is not something you're very good at.

The Burden of Proof is on you. Your post is like the silly argument:
"Hey, Joe. God exists."

"Okay, can you provide me with any proof, Hank?"

"Umm....PROVE HE DOESN'T!"

Yeh, it doesn't work like that...

 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:27 AM
 
10,764 posts, read 5,218,396 times
Reputation: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Saying I am biased does not prove Jesus got it wrong.

If the world's biblical scholars are quoting a bible which says "end of the world" then, yes, they are using "bad translations."
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
No, but showing that you're biased shows that the way you interpret Jesus' words may be biased, and therefore WRONG.
There is no reason for me to mininterpret Jesus' words wrong. If He said (and He did) that the eon/age will not end until ALL these things occur then that is just what He meant. There is no bias in me re-stating what He actually said.

Quote:
As for the whole "bad translations" thing: Yeh - you're not getting it: biblical scholars don't use translations. Are you being daft on purpose, or are you really not that familiar with the fact that the Bible was written in a language other than English (several languages, in fact), and that biblical scholars must learn those languages?
Umm, I don't know where you've been but biblical or """BIBLE""" scholars do in fact use translations. Adam Clark was a Methodist Bible scholar and he used the Authorized Version as his base.

Albert Barnes was a Presbyterian Bible Scholar and he too used bible translations.

Augustine neither knew much Greek and didn't know Hebrew. Are you telling me he was no bible scholar?

"Augustine later wrote in his Confessions that his first Greek teacher was a brutal man who constantly beat his students. As a result, Augustine rebelled by vowing never to learn Greek." Greek language - 01 | St Augustine of Hippo | Order of St Augustine

I work for a bible publishing firm and know what I'm talking about. Obviously you don't. So, put a hand over your mouth before you embarrass yourself further.

Quote:
It's ....ya' know.... kind of required to be considered an expert.

So, again - are you seriously being ignorant on purpose?
The ignorant one is YOU.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:28 AM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,081,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The epic of Gilgamesh dates from about 4,000 years ago. The flood of Noah about 7,000 years ago.
Incorrect. The Epic of Gilgamesh has been proven to predate the Biblical account by millenia.

Quote:
Noah wrote down everything about the flood and passed it on to his three sons.

The epic of Gilgamesh came from one of the offspring of one of the three sons 3,000 years after the flood. Moses had the original account.
Incorrect. There was no Noah. and Moses was in fact a tall tale based on an earlier Egyptian story.

Sorry, but like all creationists you get an F in historical accuracy and Reality 101.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:30 AM
 
10,764 posts, read 5,218,396 times
Reputation: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
bla bla bla
Ah, that's cute, you know how to put a comic on the message board. I noticed you get most of your information from comics. Kind of shows your age.

So when are you actually going to PROVE there was no flood as I have there was.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The epic of Gilgamesh dates from about 4,000 years ago. The flood of Noah about 7,000 years ago. Noah wrote down everything about the flood and passed it on to his three sons. The epic of Gilgamesh came from one of the offspring of one of the three sons 3,000 years after the flood. Moses had the original account.
Wow. Wrong.

1) The Epic of Gilgamesh is only 4000 years old? Nope. This has already been demonstrated earlier in this thread, as well as being freely available in the literature concerning it, and online. The Epic of Gilgamesh is older than 2000 BC - period. If you're going to quote Wikipedia for your information, then you better accept the other things Wikipedia has to say - especially concerning it's age. There were many different versions of the Epic - not just one.
The first recensions of the Epic were written down thousands of years prior to the composition of any book of the Hebrew Bible.

2) Hebrew didn't even exist as a language in 5000 BC. Google it. Do you believe that Hebrew was the first language? Hebrew was a Canaanite language, and is in that linguistic family. It is quite late, and one of the latest Semitic languages to appear.

3) The Epic of Gilgamesh was originally Sumerian, as Gilgamesh was a Sumerian King. So it's unlikely that Noah had anything to do with it. His name in the Sumerian version is completely different.

4) The Mosaic Authorship of the Pentateuch has been shown to be wrong (and based only on Jewish tradition - not what the text actually says) - for about 1000 years now.

All these things have been previously discussed. The facts haven't changed since that time, just your refusal to examine them in the right light.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:33 AM
 
10,764 posts, read 5,218,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
Incorrect. The Epic of Gilgamesh has been proven to predate the Biblical account by millenia.
The flood predates Gilgamesh by 3,000 years.



Quote:
Incorrect. There was no Noah. and Moses was in fact a tall tale based on an earlier Egyptian story.
Ghee, you say so, so you must be correct.

Quote:
Sorry, but like all creationists you get an F in historical accuracy and Reality 101.
Sorry, but like all non-creationists you get an F in historical accuracy and Reality 101.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:38 AM
 
2,934 posts, read 1,449,008 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Ah, that's cute, you're cute, too. Make love to me, whoppers. I noticed you get most of your information from comics, and that really turns me on. Kind of shows your maturity, and I like that about you. Isn't it fun to edit other people's quotes to make them seem like they're saying something else - just like you did to me? Now, where was I? Oh, right....what am I going to do with you? I'm going to nibble on your toes, first, and then pour grapefruit juice all over you and call you Noah. You can call me Ham, baby.

So when are you actually going to PROVE there was no flood as I have there was.

HA HA! Ohhhhh.....I'm not going to PROVE there was no flood. Read my post again, instead of editing it to say "bla bla bla", and you'll see why I'm not going to do that. If you cannot even understand one, simple post concerning the Burden of Proof, then that explains a lot.

I'm not claiming there was a Flood. YOU are. YOU prove it. That's how it works. Until you succeed at that, the rest of us will just keep not believing in it.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:47 AM
 
10,764 posts, read 5,218,396 times
Reputation: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
Wow. Wrong.

1) The Epic of Gilgamesh is only 4000 years old? Nope. This has already been demonstrated earlier in this thread, as well as being freely available in the literature concerning it, and online. The Epic of Gilgamesh is older than 2000 BC - period. If you're going to quote Wikipedia for your information, then you better accept the other things Wikipedia has to say - especially concerning it's age. There were many different versions of the Epic - not just one.
The first recensions of the Epic were written down thousands of years prior to the composition of any book of the Hebrew Bible.

The earliest Sumerian poems are now generally considered to be distinct stories rather than parts of a single epic.[2]:45 They date from as early as the Third Dynasty of Ur (2150-2000 BC).[2]:41-42 The earliest Akkadian versions are dated to the early second millennium[2]:45, most probably in the eighteenth or seventeenth century BC, when one or more authors drew upon used existing literary material to create a single epic.[3] The "standard" Akkadian version, consisting of 12 tablets, was edited by Sin-liqe-unninni sometime between 1300 and 1000 BC and was found in the library of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh. Epic of Gilgamesh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
2) Hebrew didn't even exist as a language in 5000 BC. Google it. Do you believe that Hebrew was the first language? Hebrew was a Canaanite language, and is in that linguistic family. It is quite late, and one of the latest Semitic languages to appear.
Who said Noah wrote in Hebrew about the flood passed down to his three sons? Quit with the straw man arguments.



Quote:
3) The Epic of Gilgamesh was originally Sumerian, as Gilgamesh was a Sumerian King. So it's unlikely that Noah had anything to do with it. His name in the Sumerian version is completely different.
The Sumerians came from one of Noah's three sons!

Quote:
4) The Mosaic Authorship of the Pentateuch has been shown to be wrong (and based only on Jewish tradition - not what the text actually says) - for about 1000 years now.
Not really. Most Jews accept the fact that Moses wrote the Penteteuch. They just don't believe he wrote about his own death. Joshua most likely wrote about his death because he took over the leadership from Moses.

Quote:
All these things have been previously discussed. The facts haven't changed since that time, just your refusal to examine them in the right light.
Yea, sure, like you saying Jesus said the world would end. What a joke. You can't even get your facts straight.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:47 AM
 
2,934 posts, read 1,449,008 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Umm, I don't know where you've been but biblical or """BIBLE""" scholars do in fact use translations. Adam Clark was a Methodist Bible scholar and he used the Authorized Version as his base.

Albert Barnes was a Presbyterian Bible Scholar and he too used bible translations.

Augustine neither knew much Greek and didn't know Hebrew. Are you telling me he was no bible scholar?

"Augustine later wrote in his Confessions that his first Greek teacher was a brutal man who constantly beat his students. As a result, Augustine rebelled by vowing never to learn Greek." Greek language - 01 | St Augustine of Hippo | Order of St Augustine

I work for a bible publishing firm and know what I'm talking about. Obviously you don't. So, put a hand over your mouth before you embarrass yourself further.



The ignorant one is YOU.
I'm not even going to waste my time answering such a post.
You may work for a Bible Publishing Firm - but that doesn't mean you know anything about Biblical Scholarship. Clearly you don't lol. If I'm embarrassed - it's at my mistake of assuming you could debate reasonably.

Golly. I'm sorry you think I'm ....snicker.... ignorant.
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