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I repeat, I have continually provided more and more evidence, its just continually being rejected, because they are blind to it. The earthquake during Christ death was called " The Darkness" back in those days, they considered it almost to be likened to a solar eclipse. But see the researcher must be aware of this or it willnot be understood as a quake event in history.
And there are plenty of " Papers" written on it, just none that any of you will be able to see. Because you are prejudiced and do not want to know the truth.
Heres yet another list of papers;
The gospel of Nicodemus
The gospel of Bartholomew
The papers of Dionysius the Areropagite
The Archko Volume
The papers of Sextus Julius Africanus as he relates what Thallus called this quake, and he clearly called it the darkness.
But I am not finished, I am going to keep listing evidence, wether its accepted or not. Because its just that much of it.
None of this is academic. If real archaeologists don't acknowledge this as an event indicated in the stratigraphy, you can hardly appeal to it in what is supposed to be an academic debate.
None of this is academic. If real archaeologists don't acknowledge this as an event indicated in the stratigraphy, you can hardly appeal to it in what is supposed to be an academic debate.
I already knew this would be your repeated response, and I understand this to be your scope of vision. I mean we can only see what we see.
All of it is academic in my view, and also in the view of Phlegons historical papers. He records that during the reign of Tiberius Caesar there was a complette solar eclipse ( an earthquake) , at full moon from the 6th to the 9th hour; exactly recorded as it is in the bible.
I repeat, I have continually provided more and more evidence, its just continually being rejected, because they are blind to it. The earthquake during Christ death was called " The Darkness" back in those days, they considered it almost to be likened to a solar eclipse. But see the researcher must be aware of this or it willnot be understood as a quake event in history.
And there are plenty of " Papers" written on it, just none that any of you will be able to see. Because you are prejudiced and do not want to know the truth.
Heres yet another list of papers;
The gospel of Nicodemus
The gospel of Bartholomew
The papers of Dionysius the Areropagite
The Archko Volume
The papers of Sextus Julius Africanus as he relates what Thallus called this quake, and he clearly called it the darkness.
But I am not finished, I am going to keep listing evidence, wether its accepted or not. Because its just that much of it.
Your earthquake has been debunked. Please find the proof that there was no earthquake in the following papers.
The Elephant's Arse.
Foolishness Of The Apologists.
Six of the Best.
Howard's New Shovel.
I repeat, I have continually provided more and more evidence, its just continually being rejected, because they are blind to it. The earthquake during Christ death was called " The Darkness" back in those days, they considered it almost to be likened to a solar eclipse. But see the researcher must be aware of this or it willnot be understood as a quake event in history.
And there are plenty of " Papers" written on it, just none that any of you will be able to see. Because you are prejudiced and do not want to know the truth.
Heres yet another list of papers;
The gospel of Nicodemus
The gospel of Bartholomew
The papers of Dionysius the Areropagite
The Archko Volume
The papers of Sextus Julius Africanus as he relates what Thallus called this quake, and he clearly called it the darkness.
But I am not finished, I am going to keep listing evidence, wether its accepted or not. Because its just that much of it.
My problem here is that no argument is made. You say the earthquake has evidence (apparently in the present sepulchre area) and then link it with the crucifixion darkness and the refer to the speculations of antique writers which you are pleased to call 'papers'.
Apart from whether this is relevant to the thread, there is no explanation but just a vague claim and a list of this and that which already looks dubious. You refuse discussion on the grounds that we wouldn't listen and insist on just posting lists of supposed evidence without any support.
Already we can see that the Africanus - Thallius - stuff is simply discussing what claims are in the Bible regarding what happened to Jesus, which is what is being contested as regards independent support. The gospel of Bartholemew (1) - not even part of the Bible - is hardly independent historical evidence.
You must surely see that this is just too vague, impalpable, unsupported and and unexplained to be of any use except to those who are happy to believe anything that is claimed as supporting what they already believe.
(1) A lost passion - gospel which may have turned up partially. I have not been able to find out, but how that is evidence of anything claimed in the other Gospels is hard to explain.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-11-2012 at 12:38 PM..
My problem here is that no argument is made. You say the earthquake has evidence (apparently in the present sepulchre area) and then link it with the crucifixion darkness and the refer to the speculations of antique writers which you are pleased to call 'papers'.
Apart from whether this is relevant to the thread, there is no explanation but just a vague claim and a list of this and that which already looks dubious. You refuse discussion on the grounds that we wouldn't listen and insist on just posting lists of supposed evidence without any support.
.
Hey, I can only offer what I understand to be valid history, I am not responsible for molding your perception of anything I offer. When Jesus was crucified darkness covered the land for hours; Matt. 27:45,51-54. This is known as the " Crucifixion Eclispe"; it began at noon ( the 6th hour) and lasted until 3 oclock ( the 9th hour) And the earth " Quaked". Now Dionysius the Areopagite observed this and recorded it in his papers. Thallus did the same. Phlegon recorded it in his papers, as did Lucian and Tertullian; both were convinced of it and said so.
Ussher recorded it as did Paulus Orosius. All these mens account can be easily accessed through the internet, and they all are parts of this recorded history. Now, you can claim them as irrelevant, but I simply disagree with that judgement.
And I have never refused discussion with anyone who will do so respectfully, so this claim of yours that I refuse discussion is simply bogus characther asasination.
I already knew this would be your repeated response, and I understand this to be your scope of vision. I mean we can only see what we see.
All of it is academic in my view,
Then your view is wrong. It doesn't qualify as academic in any sense of the word. It is pure ideology and rhetoric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel
and also in the view of Phlegons historical papers. He records that during the reign of Tiberius Caesar there was a complette solar eclipse ( an earthquake) , at full moon from the 6th to the 9th hour; exactly recorded as it is in the bible.
Thats academic in my view.
Again, that is not academic in any sense of the word. Phlegon was writing a century later. He had no scientific instruments on which to base such a claim, he was just repeating a tradition. It's quite clear tradition is the only thing you have to back up this claim, and as much as it may pain you to hear it, cultural tradition simply does not trump the data that is observable through scientific analysis, especially when it comes to earthquakes and other archaeological issues. Your claim simply has no basis.
Hey, I can only offer what I understand to be valid history, I am not responsible for molding your perception of anything I offer. When Jesus was crucified darkness covered the land for hours; Matt. 27:45,51-54. This is known as the " Crucifixion Eclispe"; it began at noon ( the 6th hour) and lasted until 3 oclock ( the 9th hour) And the earth " Quaked". Now Dionysius the Areopagite observed this and recorded it in his papers. Thallus did the same.
I would be absolutely fascinated by your explanation of how the Christian theologian Dionysius the Areopagite observed this event, alleged to have taken place in 33CE when he wasn't born until the late 5th century.
I already knew this would be your repeated response, and I understand this to be your scope of vision. I mean we can only see what we see.
All of it is academic in my view, and also in the view of Phlegons historical papers. He records that during the reign of Tiberius Caesar there was a complette solar eclipse ( an earthquake) , at full moon from the 6th to the 9th hour; exactly recorded as it is in the bible.
I would be absolutely fascinated by your explanation of how the Christian theologian Dionysius the Areopagite observed this event, alleged to have taken place in 33CE when he wasn't born until the late 5th century.
This should be classic!!
No, its just a classic misunderstanding; apperantly there are two Dionysius in history. The one I am refering to who observed this event is actually mentioned in the bible in Acts 17:34, which obviously places him alive during those times.
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