Killing bald eagle for religious purposes by american indians (atheist, Christian, evolution)

[Doll Eyes]

I agree OP and the worst part of it is: they have other options. I watched a news clip of the man from the Bald Eagle Association or w/e it's called and he talked about them providing this tribe with 'pre clipped' feathers and parts for their ceremonies from a group of designated eagles that can't be released from captivity. So what is the problem with that? And what are they going to do in the following year, get permission to kill more? *Tsk*

If your religious purposes include animal sacrifice (especially of a species that was on the brink of extinction and subsequently rescued) that sounds like a personal problem, not the animals' fault.

[Chango]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Do they eat the Eagles? If not, then culture be damned . . . it is a savage and barbaric waste of life that deserves no preservation. I support suppressing any culture from expressing its barbarity. What is civilization about?

You need to work harder on suppressing your own culture then. After all, we did attempt the cultural genocide of the Indians only a century or so ago... which seems slightly more evil than killing a couple of bald eagles for their feathers and claws.

Anyways, I'm content knowing that we're all just a bunch of hairless apes with big heads that can always be counted on to do apish things no matter where we come from.

And because of that fact, there is more wisdom to be found in learning why people do what they do rather than trying to make people do what you think they should do.

[Chango]

Originally Posted by Doll Eyes

I agree OP and the worst part of it is: they have other options. I watched a news clip of the man from the Bald Eagle Association or w/e it's called and he talked about them providing this tribe with 'pre clipped' feathers and parts for their ceremonies from a group of designated eagles that can't be released from captivity. So what is the problem with that? And what are they going to do in the following year, get permission to kill more? *Tsk*

If your religious purposes include animal sacrifice (especially of a species that was on the brink of extinction and subsequently rescued) that sounds like a personal problem, not the animals' fault.

This illustrates exactly how our materialistic society would see such a thing. Perhaps the act of killing the eagle is more important than the parts they collect from them?

For example:
How was the religion to the Cahuilla Indians

...So handing them a clipped feather from a clipped or naturally shed Eagle in an aviary is kinda like swapping the communion wafers for Oreos from Walmart, or celebrating the 4th of July with Streamers instead of fireworks and blasting "Lady Ga Ga" instead of the "Star Spangled Banner" or "God Bless the USA" on the speakers. After all, we're still eating cookies, listening to music and seeing colorful things shoot up into the sky... so what's the big deal?

Ceremony is has to be done "right" for it to be meaningful for the participant.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Chango

You need to work harder on suppressing your own culture then. After all, we did attempt the cultural genocide of the Indians only a century or so ago... which seems slightly more evil than killing a couple of bald eagles for their feathers and claws.

Well since I wasn't around a century ago, I focus on what I CAN do something about. Those who dwell in the past whining about our ancestors' evils and spouting recriminations to those not remotely responsible need to get a life.

Anyways, I'm content knowing that we're all just a bunch of hairless apes with big heads that can always be counted on to do apish things no matter where we come from.
And because of that fact, there is more wisdom to be found in learning why people do what they do rather than trying to make people do what you think they should do.

I have no interest in learning why savages and barbarians do savage and barbaric things. I am more interested in preventing them from doing so and ushering them into civilized society!

[reed067]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I support suppressing any culture from expressing its barbarity. What is civilization about?

Like when the Purtians came over here & tried to wipe out the Indians?

I'm not saying what the Indians are doing is right but I highly doubt they will go around killing them Moderator cut: inappropriate language


Sorry I just saw where someone else mentioned that already.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by reed067

Like when the Purtians came over here & tried to wipe out the Indians?

Wiping them out is hardly ushering them in. Give the recriminations a rest will ya! I had nothing to do with any of it and neither did you. Feeling guilty is no reason to condone their butchering the Bald Eagle for cultural/religious reasons.

I'm not saying what the Indians are doing is right but I highly doubt they will go around killing them Moderator cut: orphaned

I don't want them killing anything for religious reasons . . . it retains a savagery and barbarity that our species should have outgrown millennia ago.

[Woodrow LI]

While I object to the killing of any animal. I do not see I have the right to impose my convictions upon others, provided they do all in accordance with the accepted laws of the land.

Oddly, many who oppose the killing of an animal, to feed their souls, are often meat eaters who do not oppose killing a calf to feed their bodies.

I am not a full vegetarian, as much as I dislike to admit it I do succumb, on occasion, to the temptation to devour a nice succulent veal cutlet and a few other body parts of assorted animals.

But, if I am willing to allow an animal to be killed in order to place meat on my plate, what right do I have to condemn another who seeskilling an animal as food for his spiritual growth.

[reed067]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Wiping them out is hardly ushering them in. Give the recriminations a rest will ya! I had nothing to do with any of it and neither did you. Feeling guilty is no reason to condone their butchering the Bald Eagle for cultural/religious reasons.
I don't want them killing anything for religious reasons . . . it retains a savagery and barbarity that our species should have outgrown millennia ago.

I agree killing for religious reasons is very stupid. I don't feel gulity at all for what the puritans did. That's thier stupidity I do feel sorry for my ancestors who are indians. I can't go back & fix it but we should as humans take a lesson from it.

[bamboodude]

There are places where bald eagles are pests. So we could off them on the pest side and then let the indians use the remains. Even let the Indians do the killing if they are willing to pick off the correct ones.

After being hit by a half pound of eagle excrement having the total odor of rotten salmon many might well decide the bird is well suited to sacrifice.

Note that permits to kill raptors and owls can be gotten for such things as loss of pets or barn cats.

I am inclined to allow the Indians to maintain their own rules unless we are willing to buy them into the overall citizens body. I doubt that some tribes would be interested say the Mashantucket Pequots. But others might be ready to join up. Other than that I would think we need to respect their sovreignity as we insist they keep it.

[reed067]

Originally Posted by bamboodude

There are places where bald eagles are pests. So we could off them on the pest side and then let the indians use the remains. Even let the Indians do the killing if they are willing to pick off the correct ones.

Pests?? Why because they were here first? I dislike when people call wild animals a bother. People tend to breed so quickly that we can't knock enough trees down fast enough to bulid houses.