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I certainly understand this; but I totally disagree with how " You" propose one decides. I have no faith, and I use only evidence in my reasoning; the evidence led me to my decision. I am sure there are those who highly depend on faith, but not me!
I walk a different path.
Well, that would be fine if you used the evidence correctly. As we have shown, you often misunderstand or misuse it. That is where you go wrong. You are only ever going to have faith - based opinions with the illusion that it is based on evidence. We can help you, but we can't make you listen. That has to be up to you.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-29-2012 at 12:00 PM..
Well, that would be fine if you used the evidence correctly. As we have shown, you often misunderstand or misuse it. That is where you go wrong. You are only ever going to have faith - based opinions with the illusion that it is based on evidence. We can help you, but we can't make you listen. That has to be up to you.
Your already helping me; you feed me a constant example of why I wouldnot be Atheist. I wouldnot want my mind trapped in that frame.
History lays her finger carefully on evolution. And those fingers are comming off in our day. Physical evolution is dissovling, as is the belief in God in this world.
Another poem then;
The God approached dissolves into the air,
Imagine then, by miracle, with me,
( Ambiguous gifts, as what gods give must be)
What could not possibly be there,
And learn a style from a despair.
Your already helping me; you feed me a constant example of why I wouldnot be Atheist. I wouldnot want my mind trapped in that frame.
Nobody's asking you to be atheist, just to present sound evidence for your theories. I would not want to be trapped in a mindset that would not let me look at the evidence honestly if it conflicted with my beliefs - and before you accuse me of doing just that, I can look impartially at all the claims I see for UFOs the Ark being found, Moses' campsite, undersea cities and consciousness= God. If I can't see any convincing disproof, but not yet convincing proof (e/g NAMI films and photos are well enough but where were they taken? Independent validation of the Find is still awaited) I can suspend disbelief pending some conclusive proof one way or the other.
That mindset is better than one which insists on fiddling evidence or rejecting it altogether in order to cling to some precious faith.
You do seem to take some points on board and do at least look at the evidence which is encouraging and that's why we spend time on you, but you have to use the evidence correctly or its a waste of your time and ours.
Otherwise you might as well pop off, because you are going to convince no-one with demonstrably misused references and if you want to learn, then you had best use the methods of learning rather than of religious apologetics.
This isn't the 'hate' that you mentioned once. As Gandalf says, I'm not trying to rob you, I'm trying to help you.
Nobody's asking you to be atheist, just to present sound evidence for your theories. I would not want to be trapped in a mindset that would not let me look at the evidence honestly if it conflicted with my beliefs - and before you accuse me of doing just that, I can look impartially at all the claims I see for UFOs the Ark being found, Moses' campsite, undersea cities and consciousness= God. If I can't see any convincing disproof, but not yet convincing proof (e/g NAMI films and photos are well enough but where were they taken? Independent validation of the Find is still awaited) I can suspend disbelief pending some conclusive proof one way or the other.
That mindset is better than one which insists on fiddling evidence or rejecting it altogether in order to cling to some precious faith.
You do seem to take some points on board and do at least look at the evidence which is encouraging and that's why we spend time on you, but you have to use the evidence correctly or its a waste of your time and ours.
Otherwise you might as well pop off, because you are going to convince no-one with demonstrably misused references and if you want to learn, then you had best use the methods of learning rather than of religious apologetics.
This isn't the 'hate' that you mentioned once. As Gandalf says, I'm not trying to rob you, I'm trying to help you.
I hold absolutely no intrest in convincing you or any other Atheist of anything; I already know the legenary stubborness of Atheist, they are not willing to learn anything from Theist. Atheist are complettely blind to very important parts of the equation of our reality. There is a missing piece of the puzzle in their consciousness, and I understand that has to be compensated for when I debate them; its a handicap.
The only way a handicapped person in debate can help me, is if I give them the illusion that they are, in order to truly help them.
I hold absolutely no intrest in convincing you or any other Atheist of anything; I already know the legenary stubborness of Atheist, they are not willing to learn anything from Theist. Atheist are complettely blind to very important parts of the equation of our reality. There is a missing piece of the puzzle in their consciousness, and I understand that has to be compensated for when I debate them; its a handicap.
The only way a handicapped person in debate can help me, is if I give them the illusion that they are, in order to truly help them.
That's the blindness of the theist. They don't see that atheist are willing to learn and are willing to listen, but they are not willing accept a claim without reasonably sound evidence and certainly not without discussion.
The theist, stumped at not being able to produce a sound case, resorts to accusations of closed mindedness and failure to see 'something' which, to anyone without the eye of faith, doesn't actually seem to be there.
It is a sad way to go through life, and I feel sad to see it, though of course those who do it are probably quite happy in their self - delusion.
You know, this sort of 'you are a silly poo' exchange is a waste of time. I'd much rather discuss evidence.
Atheist are complettely blind to very important parts of the equation of our reality. There is a missing piece of the puzzle in their consciousness, and I understand that has to be compensated for when I debate them; its a handicap.
I can understand why some people may believe this. However, you need to realize that we live in a world filled with scammers, cheaters and hoaxers of all kinds who, for their own personal gain, relentlessly try to trick people into believing and accepting all kinds of baseless things. In such a world, it's understandable why more and more people have become suspicious of any and all claims that are made which seem to lack any real evidence.
I can understand why some people may believe this. However, you need to realize that we live in a world filled with scammers, cheaters and hoaxers of all kinds who, for their own personal gain, relentlessly try to trick people into believing and accepting all kinds of baseless things. In such a world, it's understandable why more and more people have become suspicious of any and all claims that are made which seem to lack any real evidence.
Religious belief falls into this category.
I think core parts of Atheism falls into this catagory, you desire to cheat and rob the world of religion, one of historys greatest founding realitys in human existence.
Atheism will never susceed in that, but they must live in self pacification and their own denial of continued evidence.
I think core parts of Atheism falls into this catagory, you desire to cheat and rob the world of religion, one of historys greatest founding realitys in human existence.
Atheism will never susceed in that, but they must live in self pacification and their own denial of continued evidence.
I don't think the majority of atheists are out to rob the world of religion. Some extremist ones may think that way.
But most atheists believe in freedom of conscience. They simply want to promote the knowledge and understanding of reality based on verifiable evidence. In the process, religion needs to re-examine and change many long-held assumptions about the natural world in light of new scientific evidence.
Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 03-30-2012 at 11:24 AM..
I don't think the majority of atheists are out to rob the world of religion. Some extremist ones may think that way.
But most atheists believe in freedom of conscience. They simply want to promote the knowledge and understanding of reality based on verifiable evidence. In the process, religion needs to re-examine and change many long-held assumptions about the natural world in light of new scientific evidence.
Well I think the majority of Atheist desire to subtract religion from the masses; its no doubt about it. Religion is one of the greatest foundations of humanity, arguably the greatest! There are some foundations that we cannot remove without upsetting the worlds structure, and religion is at the top of that list. Atheist simply fail to comprehend that in their calculations.
Religion can learn like science can, it can update its knowledge and incorperate new knowledge into its understandings, and many religions are doing that. Atheist are just not able to understand that religions can indeed grow beyond its long held assumptions. I don't think they even want religions to accomplish that.
There is a new crop of believers who are asorbing this new knowledge and making the changes in their views. I am one of them; and I am in no manner alone.
Atheism underestimates religious people as mindless sheep. And that error in judgement will always keep Atheism in the minority.
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