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Old 03-18-2012, 11:11 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 614,594 times
Reputation: 80

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
It amazes me that this discussion about equality and civil rights keeps sliding into a discussion about sex.

Isn't the issue here about the hatred and bigotry surrounding one simple thing, the right of loving couples to marry?

It is not simple..it never was simple..it is twisted in oh so many ways...to make sense of it...the root cause for it needs to be addressed first...to solve....

So...what if loving couples do not need to marry...I love my mother..do i need to marry her?...I love my friends do I need to marry them?
Jesus loved his brothern...did he need to marry them?...

No.

So..what are you proclaiming about loving couples?...what is a couple?...

We know biologically man and woman are made to engage in sexual acts to gain children...it is for that reason our sexual organs are designed...
There is no other reason for this...if we follow the reasons for them. as they were designed for and used for...any other way or use is abuse of those organs....and sex which is not love is them perverted by other acts done with them organs, that was not intended by the designer.

Love.

If these divert directions of mind continue on...more sickness or infection or death is noted...True!

So something is speaking through that infection, sickness, and death due to those resolves.....True!

Is that love?

No!

Love would be the betterment and health of both.
Knowing what they do, is something God detests...speaks volumes as to the denial or opposition in spirit of them who do these acts...and attain the rewards...which is death...which then can spread through the system and infect others when their bodies decompose into the Earth....

Is this love?
No.

The other living things have to deal with these sicknesses, or virus or bacteria....causing more trouble in the matrix of life....

True???

So...Love has nothing to do with sexual orientation...I can love with out sex!

And with that truth..I kinda say...what Jesus says..."Love eachother as I have loved you"...no sex required! (health, happiness, love of life, honour God, and do some service in the Garden sinlessly)....this all seems simplistic...but isn't that another thing Jesus said...You must become like children...honouring God is simple...it is easy..it is not a burden..when we do that giving, sharing, and true caring of the whole Earth...we benefit in the self.....true?

Is that love?

More like it I say.

 
Old 03-18-2012, 11:13 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 5,712,574 times
Reputation: 12348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Onions View Post
Well, there used to be such laws (many are still on the books of various jurisdictions, but being unconstitutional they have no meaning). They were enforced rather sporadically, usually after the act was discovered inadvertantly, but sometimes through systematic persecution of gays.

Sadly, I have little doubt that many people regret that such laws are no longer valid.
Yes. There are stories of police officers raiding bedrooms to enforce sodomy laws (not to mention miscegenation laws).

Regardless of what moral compass you operate by, does anyone really want to stoop to that level again?
 
Old 03-18-2012, 11:20 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 5,712,574 times
Reputation: 12348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Les View Post
There is no other reason in my mind, mutations or abomonations want to wedlock..in a church...persay......as I see it it is only to infuriate and make dissensions in the ranks...when God clearly states his disposition on that very act...being deplorable to him....why would anyone say or do it...is only to be opposed to what God said about it....which is Anti or opposite God.
You've made that clear, and it's true, the Bible (which if you believe is God's word) does condemn homosexuality. It also prescribes the death penalty for homosexuality. I notice you ignored my question before. So if you believe in the Bible, do you believe gay people should be killed? How far are you willing to take God's law?

Leviticus 18:22 (NIV)
22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13 (NIV)
13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Don't tell me that the Old Testament doesn't apply to today either because, clearly, according to these verses, it does:

Matthew 5:17 (NIV)
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 16:17 (NIV)
17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

If you're a decent human being, which I assume you are, I can't imagine that you would want to actually kill people who engage in homosexuality. So if you are willing and able to bend God's law to the point that you wouldn't kill every gay person you meet, what's to stop you from ignoring the verses that condemn homosexuality altogether?

Why is it that you can ignore some parts of the Bible but not other parts?

 
Old 03-18-2012, 11:26 AM
 
53 posts, read 19,207 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
It amazes me that this discussion about equality and civil rights keeps sliding into a discussion about sex.

Isn't the issue here about the hatred and bigotry surrounding one simple thing, the right of loving couples to marry?


ok so heres the setting.....your at a party and having a delightful time, everything is just dandy.

....talking, chuckling, being with people

....a new interesting person is talking to you about a common interest, say tennis and it started up naturally.

....he then says theres my wife over there, just as the gay wife has gotten into a scrap at the pool table and is smacking some guy out...

how can all this stuff go smoothly?

Last edited by Simple Ness; 03-18-2012 at 11:35 AM..
 
Old 03-18-2012, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
14,121 posts, read 10,106,421 times
Reputation: 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Several Christian denominations do offer to perform same sex marriage wherever it is legal.
And as far as I'm concerned, they should be able to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
Well then, why don't we just abolish marriage and only have civil unions?

If it's good enough for "them" is should be good enough for everyone.
I don't think we should abolish marriage, but I think we should essentially all have civil unions to unite partners legally. Then, if they want a religious ceremony, too, they could call it a marriage.
 
Old 03-18-2012, 11:35 AM
 
1,901 posts, read 1,113,222 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Yes. There are stories of police officers raiding bedrooms to enforce sodomy laws (not to mention miscegenation laws).

Regardless of what moral compass you operate by, does anyone really want to stoop to that level again?
I'am sure George Michael agrees with you whole heartedly. He's probably already drawn up a petition to stop this madness.
 
Old 03-18-2012, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
14,121 posts, read 10,106,421 times
Reputation: 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
And what about same sex couples who happen to want a religious marriage? Who want a contract between themselves and God? Christian churches and the Christian god don't own the exclusive rights to religious marriages.
I definitely don't think Christians should have a monopoly on marriages. I just would prefer not to see marriages be legal ceremonies. If a same-sex couple wants a religious marriage, and can find someone to perform it, great. It would be in addition to a civil union, though. I'm just saying that in my opinion, the two kinds of ceremonies should be distinct from one another. Until such time as that happens, I'm not opposed to same-sex marriage. Does that make sense?
 
Old 03-18-2012, 11:47 AM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,079,286 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
And as far as I'm concerned, they should be able to.

I don't think we should abolish marriage, but I think we should essentially all have civil unions to unite partners legally. Then, if they want a religious ceremony, too, they could call it a marriage.

And why should religion have to be involved in order for it to be called a marriage?

A marriage is the joining of two things - whether it is chromium and steel, chocolate and peanut butter or two people who love one another.
 
Old 03-18-2012, 12:10 PM
 
53 posts, read 19,207 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rlarson21 View Post
I hear so many people say.. 'i don't hate gays but i'm against gay marriage'.

How does that even make any sense?

you're against something that has NOTHING to do with you affects YOU an NO way, but DOES affect GAY PEOPLE"S lives ONLY.. and in a NEGATIVE WAY/

isn't that like saying that 'i don't hate you but i'm not for you having any food'

or hitting someone in the face and saying you don't hate them.

Since being gay is NOT a choice, what do you EXPECT them to do? and WHY do you want to make people suffer for NO REASON with no benefit to you?

Isn't that the definition of SADISTIC?

Do you think they should marry straight people and have unloving sham marriages?

I'm JUST NOT understanding the mentality of the i don't hate gays but i'm against gay marriage crowd.

would they be willing to visit gay families and tell them this to their face?

or all gay people just 'the unreal they' to them?

I am assuming when people say they are against gay marriage they are saying that they are against gay marriage for STRAIGHT PEOPLE? but the issues isn't gay marriage for straight people, it's gay marriage for gay PEOPLE!!

Ok so you gotta approach this as a language issue and leave out feelings which usually only represent very few people. Then facts are facts and theres no defence for cruelty if thats what this is all about.

Definition marriage:

a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>
b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock
c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2
: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3
: an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>


It clearly states where a person is united to a person of the same sex in a relationship "like" that of a traditional marriage , the word marriage is acceptable. You would think though that any document or legal whatever would definitely specify the issue with regards to a Non Traditional Marriage....why?...because thats what documents are all about, being clear itemized and specific. That is the responcibility of formal paper work

Last edited by Simple Ness; 03-18-2012 at 12:21 PM..
 
Old 03-18-2012, 12:19 PM
 
14,599 posts, read 12,564,915 times
Reputation: 10572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rlarson21 View Post
I hear so many people say.. 'i don't hate gays but i'm against gay marriage'.

How does that even make any sense?

you're against something that has NOTHING to do with you affects YOU an NO way, but DOES affect GAY PEOPLE"S lives ONLY.. and in a NEGATIVE WAY/

isn't that like saying that 'i don't hate you but i'm not for you having any food'

or hitting someone in the face and saying you don't hate them.

Since being gay is NOT a choice, what do you EXPECT them to do? and WHY do you want to make people suffer for NO REASON with no benefit to you?

Isn't that the definition of SADISTIC?

Do you think they should marry straight people and have unloving sham marriages?

I'm JUST NOT understanding the mentality of the i don't hate gays but i'm against gay marriage crowd.

would they be willing to visit gay families and tell them this to their face?

or all gay people just 'the unreal they' to them?

I am assuming when people say they are against gay marriage they are saying that they are against gay marriage for STRAIGHT PEOPLE? but the issues isn't gay marriage for straight people, it's gay marriage for gay PEOPLE!!
I am gay but I have a real problem with this kind of "if you don't agree with me, you must hate me" kind of thinking.

Some people are from a different generation and the idea of same sex marriage is too radical a change for them. I don't agree with them. I do think their beliefs are based on old prejudices, but that doesn't mean they hate me. None of us is free from prejudice, and that most definitely includes gays themselves.
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