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Old 03-17-2012, 12:49 PM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 5,213,741 times
Reputation: 7012

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phxgreenfire View Post
I don't blame you. Frankly, I don't even much care for that argument "I don't care if you're gay, just don't rub it in my face." At my last job, people weren't shy about covering their desks with pictures of their spouses and children, one guy insisted on bringing in his spoiled little daughter so she could sell us overpriced kitsch and snacks to support her school, our workload increased when this woman called out of work to take care of her son who seemed to get "sick" weekly, I used to live next to a hotel with convention space that people seemed to like using as high-profile weddings... and, the list goes on.

I wish I could say why Christianity is so cold and judgmental, but there's no rhyme or reason to it. I sum it up simply to hypocrisy. Somehow, my parents kept getting promotional pamphlets from a Christian travel agency, and right on the cover it promoted a trip to Egypt... yet Jeremiah 42:17 suggests that Christians really shouldn't be going there. But, who cares? Christians with the travel bug might want to see some of the amazing structures the ancient Egyptians created. Just arbitrarily pick and choose which Bible verses are still relevant today.

Another fascinating thing to me is that both the Bible and Quran forbid drunkenness, but smoking is allowed. Simply put, alcohol had been discovered when both books were written, yet tobacco wouldn't be discovered for several centuries. In fact, the Book of Mormon does forbid tobacco as the religion had been founded after tobacco use became widespread. I work with a lot of Muslims now, and many of them smoke... but hey, the Quran doesn't say anything about it. The highest smoking rates in America are also in Bible Belt states (I posted links below.)

My point with all that is how outdated and out-of-touch religious texts really are. At that time, they couldn't foresee tobacco use, nor could they picture in full what life would be like 2000 years later. Though there is proof that some ancient cultures accepted gays and lesbians (notably Greece) and for whatever reason, whoever wrote the Bible didn't agree.

Mississippians Go to Church the Most; Vermonters, Least
Smoking Rates Remain Highest in Kentucky, Lowest in Utah
The bible was written by man, it contradicts itself repeatedly and lays claim to fantastic events that in no way could have ever happened.

It says we should love our fellow man and then preaches hate.

It teaches that we are all God's creations, made in his image and then calls certain groups abominations.

It condemns animal sacrifice and then demands it.

Really, is it any wonder that so many are confused?

I was raised to not look at religion, gender, color or sexual preference but at the person behind the label. That's how I raised my own children.

I would be willing to bet that many of these so called Christians on here have never even met any of the people that they rail against. Still, I feel compelled to forgive them simply because they don't know any better.

Blessed be.

 
Old 03-17-2012, 02:29 PM
 
63,565 posts, read 39,855,129 times
Reputation: 7818
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
The bible was written by man, it contradicts itself repeatedly and lays claim to fantastic events that in no way could have ever happened.
It says we should love our fellow man and then preaches hate.
It teaches that we are all God's creations, made in his image and then calls certain groups abominations.
It condemns animal sacrifice and then demands it.
Really, is it any wonder that so many are confused?
I was raised to not look at religion, gender, color or sexual preference but at the person behind the label. That's how I raised my own children.
I would be willing to bet that many of these so called Christians on here have never even met any of the people that they rail against. Still, I feel compelled to forgive them simply because they don't know any better.
Blessed be.
Your graciousness is going to have me believing Richard's chauvinistic views of women, Pam. j/k I truly believe for most of them it is not an intellectual or biblical position . . . it is far more visceral than that and not necessarily subject to change . . . more like a well-learned gestalt.
 
Old 03-17-2012, 03:19 PM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 5,213,741 times
Reputation: 7012
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your graciousness is going to have me believing Richard's chauvinistic views of women, Pam. j/k I truly believe for most of them it is not an intellectual or biblical position . . . it is far more visceral than that and not necessarily subject to change . . . more like a well-learned gestalt.
Pagan's are pretty tolerant of others beliefs.

But! Some of the claims and assertions made by other posters, well let's just say that they greatly annoy my inner liberal redneck feminist.

Mostly I just smile, nod and try to avoid eye contact as it tends to upset them.
 
Old 03-17-2012, 04:01 PM
 
2,469 posts, read 3,122,489 times
Reputation: 1349
Laws are to promote the best for society and its future.
Children are the future of society.
Children do best when raised by the 2 opposite genders that created them: A mother and a father.
Supporting legal marriage as only between a man and a woman is LOVING and honoring the roles of fathers and mothers (which we all came from) and is loving and honoring what is best for children.

Denying a child a mother or father is hateful.

Denying people truth about the consequences of homosexuality is hateful.



Homosexuality (deemed as "death" by an ex-homosexual & ex-gay rights leader) is NOT what we want to teach children, especially considering that statistically, (according to the US CDC) homosexual practices present risks... since homosexuals switch partners often, they are more likely to get STDs & AIDS (which 2 friends of mine died from).
http://www.cdc.gov/stdconference/2000/m ... ay2000.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/doc ... 08comp.pdf (http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf - broken link)
We also know that anal sex is risky (for anal fissures, colon rupture & anal cancer), even in 2 healthy males.

Evidence shows being gay IS a choice, more linked to environmental influences than to biology...
Science Does NOT Support the Claim That Homosexuality Is Genetic
http://www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf
Homosexual Researchers Debunk ‘Born Gay’ Urban Legend
Homosexual Researchers Debunk ‘Born Gay’ Urban Legend

"1. No research has found provable biological or genetic differences between heterosexuals & homosexuals that weren't caused by their behavior.
2. In 2 large studies conducted... Homosexuals overwhelmingly believed their feelings and behavior were the result of social or environmental influences.
3. Older homosexuals often approach the young
4. Early homosexual experiences influence adult patters of behavior
5. Sexual conduct is influenced by cultural factors - esp. religious convictions
6. Many change their sexual preferences
7. There are many ex-homosexuals"
Environmental factors may influence sexual orientation
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archiv ... t/06102608

The APA changed the definition of homosexuality not because of scientific studies, but because of political harrassment from gay lobbyists.
The Born "Gay" Hoax |
 
Old 03-17-2012, 04:04 PM
 
2,469 posts, read 3,122,489 times
Reputation: 1349
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
Gays already have the right to marry the person they love? Really? Do tell.
Ok.

Gay couples already have rights under laws like common law marriage and cohabitation agreements...

Common-law marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cohabitation agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even if no contract is written up, they have rights.
Yet even more rights are extended if a couple creates a contract when they begin living together.

There is no need to redefine marriage to include sexual deviations.
In fact, doing so will harm many - including homosexuals (& others who are persuaded to be homosexual) by condoning statistically harmful behavior and by not giving children what they need most: BOTH a mother and father.
 
Old 03-17-2012, 04:06 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,253,323 times
Reputation: 55556
i support gay marriage but dont deserve a thank u. gays so far have found a way to dodge the marriage/divorce nightmare merrygoaround but that is about to come to an end.
with gay marriage comes gay divorce. jerry spring show will look dull when that happens.
 
Old 03-17-2012, 05:38 PM
 
1,743 posts, read 2,155,398 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
Ok.

Gay couples already have rights under laws like common law marriage and cohabitation agreements...

Common-law marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cohabitation agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even if no contract is written up, they have rights.
Yet even more rights are extended if a couple creates a contract when they begin living together.

There is no need to redefine marriage to include sexual deviations.
Right, just as there was no need to redefine marriage to include natural "deviations" (i.e. interracial marriage).

You're basically right, tho - two people devoting themselves to one another in marriage is not redefining it in any way. Whether those doing so are the same or different sex. Marriage is marriage.

You even linked to Common Law Marriage...

Quote:
In fact, doing so will harm many - including homosexuals (& others who are persuaded to be homosexual)
One cannot be persuaded to be homosexual. You're either born that way or you aren't. (HINT: participating in sexual activities with the same sex does not make one a homosexual).

One can be persuaded to be a homophobe and a bigot, however.

Quote:
by condoning statistically harmful behavior and by not giving children what they need most: BOTH a mother and father.
What children need most is a parent or parents who love them unconditionally. Regardless of their sexuality.

And sorry, but statistically there's nothing harmful about homosexuality, same sex marriage or children being raised in those relationships.
 
Old 03-17-2012, 05:54 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,536,708 times
Reputation: 3602
Lets attempt to make this extremely simple for the liberally challenged.

You have a favorite (fill in the blank).

You have a third favorite (fill in the blank).

Because you do not have the same feelings for your third as for your first, does that mean that you "hate" number three? Or is that just what some people would like you to believe?
 
Old 03-17-2012, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,514 posts, read 37,057,177 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
Ok.

Gay couples already have rights under laws like common law marriage and cohabitation agreements...

Common-law marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No they don't at least not in the US...Since the mid-1990s, the term "common-law marriage" has been used in parts of Europe and Canada to describe various types of domestic partnership between persons of the same sex as well those of the opposite sex.

Quote:
Cohabitation agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even if no contract is written up, they have rights.
Yet even more rights are extended if a couple creates a contract when they begin living together.
Not at all the same as marriage...A cohabitation agreement is a form of legal agreement reached between a couple who have chosen to live together. In some ways, such a couple may be treated like a married couple, such as when applying for a mortgage or working out child support. However, in some other areas, such as property rights, pensions and inheritance, they are treated differently.
Quote:
There is no need to redefine marriage to include sexual deviations.
In fact, doing so will harm many - including homosexuals (& others who are persuaded to be homosexual) by condoning statistically harmful behavior and by not giving children what they need most: BOTH a mother and father.
This is your prejudice speaking and is untrue.
 
Old 03-17-2012, 07:50 PM
 
2,469 posts, read 3,122,489 times
Reputation: 1349
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
Right, just as there was no need to redefine marriage to include natural "deviations" (i.e. interracial marriage).
How can you logically compare a man and women of whatever races with 2 men or 2 women?
Maybe you define "logic" illogically.

Quote:
You're basically right, tho - two people devoting themselves to one another in marriage is not redefining it in any way. Whether those doing so are the same or different sex. Marriage is marriage.
If they want to have their own ceremony & consider themselves married - fine.
But when they try to make it legal & make everyone else honor their sexual deviations, and then they try to bring children into their distorted relationship... That's not good for society, & especially not good for children.

As mentioned, they already have rights under common law marriage.
Why demand legal redefinition of marriage to be 2 fathers or 2 mothers - when it is impossible for them to be parents without outside help?

Quote:
One cannot be persuaded to be homosexual. You're either born that way or you aren't. (HINT: participating in sexual activities with the same sex does not make one a homosexual).
WRONG.
This shows your ignorance regarding this topic.
Please, if you're going to states some lies, know why you are doing so.
What do you gain?
Spreading lies that lead to sickness & even death is morally wrong & psychologically twisted.

Pay attention:
When you, me & everyone was born, our brains were only 25% developed, which allowed for us to adapt to environmental influences & survive. Compared to other primates, we spend much longer with care-givers but in the long run, we are better adapted to our environments. There are rare exceptions with hermaphrodites - but that is a percentage of a percentage of the population. The rest of those with homosexual preferences acquired their taste in sex, as they did their taste in music, clothes etc... mostly through environmental influences.

The APA changed the definition of homosexuality not because of scientific studies, but because of political harrassment from gay lobbyists.
The Born "Gay" Hoax |


Quote:
One can be persuaded to be a homophobe and a bigot, however.
When people make personal attacks, engaging in the logical fallacy of adhominem attack... it demonstrates that they have nothing more to share & yet feel threatened, yet having nothing else of substance, they resort to put-downs.
In the end, anyone who understand this, realizes the "attacker" to be ignorant.

Quote:
What children need most is a parent or parents who love them unconditionally. Regardless of their sexuality.
If a parent loved a child unconditionally, they would want the absolute best for the child - which involves being raised by the 2 genders that created them - a mother and father.
Homosexual parents care more about what THEY want, then what the children need & thrive best with.

Quote:
And sorry, but statistically there's nothing harmful about homosexuality, same sex marriage or children being raised in those relationships.
WRONG again.
You are really making yourself look ignorant by stating these lies, especially when statistical facts from the United States Center For Disease Control contradicts your inaccurate statements.

Homosexuality (deemed as "death" by an ex-homosexual & ex-gay rights leader) is NOT what we want to teach children, especially considering that statistically, (according to the US CDC) homosexual practices present risks... since homosexuals switch partners often, they are more likely to get STDs & AIDS (which 2 friends of mine died from).
http://www.cdc.gov/stdconference/2000/m ... ay2000.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/doc ... 08comp.pdf (http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf - broken link)
We also know that anal sex is risky (for anal fissures, colon rupture & anal cancer), even in 2 healthy males.


Children have the right to not be taught homosexuality in school. Yet, in places where gay marriage has been enacted, these rights have been infringed upon. Here are a few examples where those with homosexual preferences have pushed their assumed rights, which infringed on the rights of others...
*Freshmen were told not to tell their parents about a pro-gay seminar & were required to sign a confidentiality agreement (Derrfield, Illinois Mar. 2007).
*In March, 2007, a Massachusetts high school banned parents from attending a seminar for students on how they can know they are homosexual.
*In October, 2008, First graders (6 year-old students) were taken on a field trip to watch their lesbian teacher's wedding.
*In Oct 2008, a Hayward CA public elementary school celebrated "Coming Out Day."

Normalizing & even encouraging children to explore homosexuality obviously causes more to experiment with homosexuality.
"The Legal Liability Associated with Homosexuality Education in Schools... This report is part of an integrated strategy to inform and educate parents, students and school officials across the nation of its contents and of their respective rights and duties. It has documented the concern that the health of students in many schools across the country may have been compromised and their First Amendment rights may have been denied."
http://www.afamichigan.org/images/Legal ... 200504.pdf

Studies clearly show what we already know by common sense...
That just as children are created by a mother and father, they also thrive best by being raised by a mother and father:

"Children Need Both A Mother And A Father" Dr. A. Dean Byrd
Children Need Both A Mother And A Father

"Why Children need both Mother-Love and Father-Love" Glenn T. Stanton
http://www.jashow.org/Articles/_PDFArch ... I0804G.pdf

"Mothers' and Fathers' Socializing Behaviors in Three Contexts: Links with Children's Peer Competence"
Pettit, Gregory S.; Brown, Elizabeth Glyn; Mize, Jacquelyn; Lindsey, Eric
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/se ... o=EJ563106

"Why Children Need a Mother and a Father" Bill Muehlenberg
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/10/ ... -a-father/
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