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Thanks very much for all of your comments. I'll get back to you this evening.
Wallisdj, you must be an attorney. You ask a question with a question, and still don't give an answer. In my story, the three guys had no reason to kill the person. They just felt like it. Does that help you to give a more direct answer?
Are you speaking for the Jew as a Jew yourself or as a non-Jew? I had no idea Jews believed in reincarnation.
Yes, I'm a Torah-Observant Jew. And yes, Jews do indeed believe in reincarnation. As looktowindward said earlier in this thread, it's mainstream Jewish belief. I suspect the reason why many Jews don't talk much about is that 85% of the Jews in the world are not Torah Observant and do not regularly learn what's inside their book - therefore they are unaware. But never to fear, there are a few million Torah Jews in the world who are keeping the mantle of Torah alive for future generations and will help teach the world truth with the coming of moschiach, may that be speedily and in our days...
Reincarnation is a Jewish mystical belief - it is not widely discussed, but is mainstream.
We tend to be somewhat vague about the afterlife - our job is to handle things down here, while God handles that sort of thing. We don't believe that the presence or absence of a heavenly reward should be a motivator for behavior or faith. We certainly don't think that the threat of eternal hellfire should motivate you to either believe or do anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop
Yes, I'm a Torah-Observant Jew. And yes, Jews do indeed believe in reincarnation. As looktowindward said earlier in this thread, it's mainstream Jewish belief. I suspect the reason why many Jews don't talk much about is that 85% of the Jews in the world are not Torah Observant and do not regularly learn what's inside their book - therefore they are unaware. But never to fear, there are a few million Torah Jews in the world who are keeping the mantle of Torah alive for future generations and will help teach the world truth with the coming of moschiach, may that be speedily and in our days...
That's very interesting and, I've got to add, surprising to me. Re-incarnation has always seemed like something I associate with eastern religions. I learned something new today. Thank you both.
I'll play along, but I can only speak for the Jew.
There's no way to know for sure, but the strong likelihood is that the Jew does not go to heaven, no matter how sorry he said he was and how sincerely he meant it.
He dies, he's judged, and then if he's lucky he spends a few months in Gehinnom repairing his soul. But more likely, his soul is washed clean and he is reborn into a new body to live a new life and try it all over again. And that scenario sucks.
Thanks. Yeah, that scenario sucks. Who wants another run at this? Shucks, the "Comparative Religions" class in college was always filled.
A Christian, a Jew, and a Muslim form a gang and attack someone and kill them. All three take part in the murder.
The next day, they all realize they have done something wrong and they sincerely and truthfully confess their sins to their god and beg for forgiveness.
Then a meteor hits them and kills them.
Do any of them go to heaven? If so, are they treated as well as other non-criminals in heaven or do they get punished for the crime they committed?
Who knows?
I believe that we don't "go" to heaven... we grow to heaven.
So it would depend on how each lived their lives, what their intention was.
Why were they killing? If they "just felt like it" - they were suffering some form of mental illness - which kind & how much "free will" did they have?
Was it a mass-murderer who had just killed a bunch of people that they were killing?
Although I don't think it's really important that we believe it or not, I tend to lean toward believing in some type of reincarnation.
So... as many (of all faiths) say who've had Near-Death-Experiences... there is no religion on the other side... just truth - it's all spiritual.
If reincarnation applies... they will be reborn into circumstances that they are attracted to/comfortable with based on their heart/intent & lives.
This isn't much different than the idea of "many (spiritual) mansions prepared."
we do know there is one unforgivable sin, that is the sin of Shirk, worshiping anyone besides Allaah(swt) or anyone in addition to him.
I think that is wrong, Woodrow, because there are a lot of good people who worship other gods and idols. When Ghandhi lay dying, he prayed to the god Rama.
If I believed in a god, I would like him to be the one portrayed in this beautiful poem by Rudyard Kipling:
As to what will happen to the three people in your example, it would all depend on their own choices during the time while they awaited their resurrection.
Thanks for your very well thought-out answer, Katzpur.
I always thought people were given a final judgement right after they died and were sent either to heaven or hell. However, you said the spirits of the dead people keep doing things and would have a chance to show they were truly sorry for killing the person. Very interesting.
My personal view as a Muslim. I may be wrong, Astagfirullah (May Allah forgive me)
We do not know who will go to Heaven, only Allaah(swt) knows. But we do know there is one unforgivable sin, that is the sin of Shirk, worshiping anyone besides Allaah(swt) or anyone in addition to him.
That has probably eliminated the Christian from going to heaven. However Allaah(swt) is fully just and all merciful and may find extenuating circumstances that caused the person to commit the sin of shirk and never had the ability to be different. If that happens he will spend time in hell to be cleansed and still enter heaven after being cleansed.
The Jew has not recognized all of the Prophets(PBUT) because he has not recognized Jesus and Muhammad as Prophets. Probably he will spend some time in one of the levels of Hell and in time his sin will be cleaned and he will be admitted to Heaven.
The Muslim was on the right path and deliberately strayed by killing an innocent person. In spite of repenting he will still pay for his sin. Like the Jew he will go to Hell probably one of the more severe(deeper) levels as he knew better,for a long period of time but eventually his sin will be cleaned and he will be admitted to heaven.
Assalamu Alaykum,
Bro, I'm pretty sure the Christian and Jew would both go to hell forever since Allah (SWT) says something like "The only religion acceptable to Allah is Islam" in the Qur'an.
And as you said the Jew does not associate partners with God but they still deny some messengers, Books, etc. and these are pillars of Iman which we need.
Also there are many types of Shirk like making Halaal what Allah (SWT) made Haraam and vice versa which from our point of view is what the Jews are doing since they are not following God's Laws but some man made ones as well. Plus Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) came for the whole of humanity till the Day of Resurrection so the last revelations and messages wouldn't do them any good, even if they were preserved.
Only Muslims which ended up in hell will be taken out eventually but people of other religions will stay there.
Yes, I'm a Torah-Observant Jew. And yes, Jews do indeed believe in reincarnation. As looktowindward said earlier in this thread, it's mainstream Jewish belief. I suspect the reason why many Jews don't talk much about is that 85% of the Jews in the world are not Torah Observant and do not regularly learn what's inside their book - therefore they are unaware. But never to fear, there are a few million Torah Jews in the world who are keeping the mantle of Torah alive for future generations and will help teach the world truth with the coming of moschiach, may that be speedily and in our days...
if someone did a criminal act ? the matter wont end by confessing that in a temple of any kind? why you ignore the regulations of life which were mentioned in religions ??
from an Islamic point of view , the fast punishment in this life is just a part of a total punishment package this abhorrent act deserve ?
i almost forgot to mention that it's silly to depict that religion's follower are more prone to commit horrible things (?)
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