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The problem with invisible friends is that they always become the ideal friend, because they can become anything you want or need. If you insist that living persons become like an invisible friend you will soon be disillusioned.
Real people, unlike invisible friends, have limitations. Friends either accept these limitations or else the friendship will wither and die.
Is love real? I'm not speaking of emotion or self preservation.
I have been loved and I know that I am able to love, so I know it is real.
I have friends who I find have 'limitations', but I still count them my friends. They accept me the way that I am and I accept them the way they are. As long as we are honest I have no problem with it.
Even though you admire and respect the fact that I do believe that there is a creator and He is the center of the universe I feel that deep within your heart of hearts you think I cling to a childish concept to bring myself comfort in the face of anguish and pain, which in your professional opinion would be "Go with it Bev, if that is the source of your being and sanity".
But no, I don't. Do not.
That's just the thing: I do not feel that people believe in god by "default." I cannot underscore that enough. I most certainly don't regard yours, or anyone else's belief in god as being a "childish concept to bring comfort in the face of anguish and pain." I truly feel that the comfort that you and everyone else feels is a byproduct of that belief, but I do not see it as the sole basis of, or foundation of your belief.
And that is why it is all so perplexing to me. I honestly believe that you all "have" something that preceeds that emotional sense of well being. In no way do I feel that people believe in god simply due to emotional reasons alone. No! I can't help but feel that there is "something" that is deeper than that; that while it impacts one's emotions/sense of well being, that it's origins somehow reside in a place that preclude any emotional state. (Not sure I'm making much sense here...) What I am attempting to say, is that I do believe that there are people who believe in god and that it has nothing to do with emotional states of pain or anguish. I think that that there are those who believe in god because there is something within them that has nothing whatsoever to do with the psyche, mind, or feelings. It's "other" than that; deeper than that.
And that is what I just can't quite comprehend. That is what is so mysterious to me, that I am curious about. For me, it has absolutely nothing to do with anything that is scientifically provable or not. (Or, I should say, it has far less to do with science...I am not an atheist necessarily for the same reasons that Montana is. Of that, I am certain.) However, I do not for a minute feel that any believer is operating in a state of emotional "delusion." Nope. I could never, ever believe that that is the underlying basis for anyone's belief in a god.
And Blue, I don't want you, (or anyone else!) to feel that you would be wasting your time, or in any way be risking your friendship with me in attempting to help me in better understanding what it is that I just don't "get" or have. You see, that simply could not happen; I would never feel that any of our friendships could possibly be jeapordized by that.
I am merely trying to understand what I am so seemingly unable to.
That's just the thing: I do not feel that people believe in god by "default." I cannot underscore that enough. I most certainly don't regard yours, or anyone else's belief in god as being a "childish concept to bring comfort in the face of anguish and pain." I truly feel that the comfort that you and everyone else feels is a byproduct of that belief, but I do not see it as the sole basis of, or foundation of your belief.
And that is why it is all so perplexing to me. I honestly believe that you all "have" something that preceeds that emotional sense of well being. In no way do I feel that people believe in god simply due to emotional reasons alone. No! I can't help but feel that there is "something" that is deeper than that; that while it impacts one's emotions/sense of well being, that it's origins somehow reside in a place that preclude any emotional state. (Not sure I'm making much sense here...) What I am attempting to say, is that I do believe that there are people who believe in god and that it has nothing to do with emotional states of pain or anguish. I think that that there are those who believe in god because there is something within them that has nothing whatsoever to do with the psyche, mind, or feelings. It's "other" than that; deeper than that.
And that is what I just can't quite comprehend. That is what is so mysterious to me, that I am curious about. For me, it has absolutely nothing to do with anything that is scientifically provable or not. (Or, I should say, it has far less to do with science...I am not an atheist necessarily for the same reasons that Montana is. Of that, I am certain.) However, I do not for a minute feel that any believer is operating in a state of emotional "delusion." Nope. I could never, ever believe that that is the underlying basis for anyone's belief in a god.
And Blue, I don't want you, (or anyone else!) to feel that you would be wasting your time, or in any way be risking your friendship with me in attempting to help me in better understanding what it is that I just don't "get" or have. You see, that simply could not happen; I would never feel that any of our friendships could possibly be jeapordized by that.
I am merely trying to understand what I am so seemingly unable to.
I mean this, sincerely.
Take gentle care.
That's a great post and I just want to publicly thank you for it.
I'm fairly confident that most non-believers would not share this opinion, so I respect you for saying what might be unpopular among your peers.
We love ya, June. On that much you can be sure and you can 'know' without any scientific proof of it!
Song, since I am an old person, I will answer this post....I will only answer for myself, but I am sure that lots of other older folks feel the same way...I have had the Lord in my life for many many years. I have come to know him better and better with each changing of the seasons of my life. I feel his presence with me all times, and I talk to him daily as I would a best friend that I can share all my joys, dreams and love, along with my worries and fears. No hon, I do not fear death. As an imperfect human I worry about leaving my loved ones in grief and pain when I pass,and yes I so pray that the Lord takes me home that I am finally ready spiritually and with as little pain as possible. I believe when I am in the presence of God ,that I will see and feel such beauty and joy that my carnal mind cannot even imagine..I am not ready to leave this world yet, because most of the time I fear that I am not worthy yet to be in his presence. "Hell" IMO, is not everlasting torture, it is everlsasting death being cut off from God. I don't fear death at all, I think it will just be the beginning
That's great that you feel that way. I talk to God also and have a relationship with him but I'm not a churchgoer and I'm not into organized religion.
I said what I said because when I was a churchgoer, it seemed to be mostly people that were way older or way younger. Nobody in my age group. To this day, if I go to church with my mom on Christmas Eve, I see older people.
Someone said something to me at one time and said they go to church because they're getting ready to die and hedging there bets. It's stuck with me ever since.
Hmmm, I'm 36, not sure if I fit the old or young category, but anyway, I was brought up Catholic, my parents didn't push us to go to church, they did put me through eight years of Catechism, but we never went to church on Sunday with them.
It's only been in the past few years that my husband and I and the kids started going to church. I hate to sound corny, but right after September 11th, we really started making some positive changes in our life, one of them was going back to church. I had been thinking about it for a while but never mentioned it to him yet, then one day he came up to me and said I really want us to start going to church again, and I told him that I have been thinking the same thing. I love going to church, there is no better feeling than being in there. I keep my religion to myself - I don't preach to people and I only talk about going to church or my faith if I am asked.
That's good that you enjoy church as much as you do. You are in the minority as far as age is concerned. That's my experience with it.
You're right June, my relationship with God is not about "feeling good". It is much deeper, John 6:44 tells us no one can come to Jesus unless the God draws them to Him. The Holy Spirit spoke to my heart and drew me to Jesus.
God has provided the answers we need for every problem, every question. The Holy Spirit makes all things known to us and enables us to discern truth from error.
You are an amazing woman June, you are so thoughtful and caring and I love you June!
That's great that you feel that way. I talk to God also and have a relationship with him but I'm not a churchgoer and I'm not into organized religion.
I said what I said because when I was a churchgoer, it seemed to be mostly people that were way older or way younger. Nobody in my age group. To this day, if I go to church with my mom on Christmas Eve, I see older people.
Someone said something to me at one time and said they go to church because they're getting ready to die and hedging there bets. It's stuck with me ever since.
And that's sad song, I honestly believe if more young folks were involved, we could change the church back to the one Jesus expects us to be. I'm 37, and hate that it's gonna be about 30 years before I have a lot of people my age to go to church with. I guess then we'll go climb in the pews and complain like we're being taught by our elders, ya think?
If you went to church, there would be at least one personthere your age for the next person who might want to come.
The only person that can move Christ's church forward has a picture of themselves in your bathroom mirror.
That's great that you feel that way. I talk to God also and have a relationship with him but I'm not a churchgoer and I'm not into organized religion.
I said what I said because when I was a churchgoer, it seemed to be mostly people that were way older or way younger. Nobody in my age group. To this day, if I go to church with my mom on Christmas Eve, I see older people.
Someone said something to me at one time and said they go to church because they're getting ready to die and hedging there bets. It's stuck with me ever since.
It's not going to church that allows people to go to Heaven, it's Jesus.
I'm not sure who the old people are but that's been my experience with the people I've seen in church mostly.
Thanks for the award but I don't know why you think I'm stereotyping people. Care to explain?
Sounds like you can dish out whatever you want but when someone doesn't say what you want them to say, you can't take it and you're the one doing the stereotyping.
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Friends either accept these limitations or else the friendship will wither and die.
....I will only answer for myself, but I am sure that lots of other older folks feel the same way...I have had the Lord in my life for many many years. I have come to know him better and better with each changing of the seasons of my life. I feel his presence with me all times, and I talk to him daily as I would a best friend that I can share all my joys, dreams and love, along with my worries and fears. No hon, I do not fear death. As an imperfect human I worry about leaving my loved ones in grief and pain when I pass,and yes I so pray that the Lord takes me home that I am finally ready spiritually and with as little pain as possible. I believe when I am in the presence of God ,that I will see and feel such beauty and joy that my carnal mind cannot even imagine..I am not ready to leave this world yet, because most of the time I fear that I am not worthy yet to be in his presence. "Hell" IMO, is not everlasting torture, it is everlsasting death being cut off from God. I don't fear death at all, I think it will just be the beginning
