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The OP seems to have failed to grasp the difference between disbelief in God and the rejection of religion.
People are not becoming atheists. The said group is simply rejecting churches, temples and mosques. The have not become an atheist, but simple have rejected organized religion.
Big difference. And for those of you who do not follow spiritual matters, the idea that people reject religion, but still follow God is well known in the church world.
I partially agree with that. While I get the impression that atheism itself is increasing, I see it also as being part of a movement towards agnosticism from theism and away from organized religion and indeed away from the claims of religion, even by those who still believe in a god rather than just agnostically think a god is fairly probable.
If so, that's a huge rejection of man- made religions and their invented gods and towards deism or agnosticism; and I am perfectly happy to share a world with agnostics and deists.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-15-2012 at 02:05 AM..
Reason: underline 'believe' for emphasis.
The OP seems to have failed to grasp the difference between disbelief in God and the rejection of religion.
People are not becoming atheists. The said group is simply rejecting churches, temples and mosques. The have not become an atheist, but simple have rejected organized religion.
Big difference. And for those of you who do not follow spiritual matters, the idea that people reject religion, but still follow God is well known in the church world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
I partially agree with that. While I get the impression that atheism itself is increasing, I see it also as being part of a movement towards agnosticism from theism and away from organized religion and indeed away from the claims of religion, even by those who still believe in a god rather than just agnostically think a god is fairly probable.
If so, that's a huge rejection of man- made religions and their invented gods and towards deism or agnosticism; and I am perfectly happy to share a world with agnostics and deists.
There are atheists who have been such from their earliest days . . . as I was. I accepted none of the hokum thrown at me as a child. However, in my experience the vast majority of atheists have rejected some religion or other and are in a kind of abreaction to theism as a result. I agree with Mr5150 that most of those who reject religion retain a belief in God. This is completely reasonable given that the religions have retained ancient ignorance well past its expiration date in the face of over 2000+ years of accumulated knowledge. It is only the large variance in human knowledge and spiritual maturity that enables ANY of the hokum to continue to influence human understanding of God.
The OP seems to have failed to grasp the difference between disbelief in God and the rejection of religion.
People are not becoming atheists. The said group is simply rejecting churches, temples and mosques. The have not become an atheist, but simple have rejected organized religion.
Big difference. And for those of you who do not follow spiritual matters, the idea that people reject religion, but still follow God is well known in the church world.
There is, however, another side to that; there are also tens of millions of people who do claim a religious denomination--Catholic, Methodist, Jewish, whatever--out of family tradition, but pay zero attention to it. Who seldom, if ever, ask themselves "What would God want me to do about this?"
It doesn't cost anyone anything to say they believe in God or are of a particular religious persuasion on a survey. But it frequently has nothing to do with their real life.
Well if you really look at it church numbers have been steady for the past 30 some years so i don't feel there is a rise in atheism. What i do think is people today tend to be more likely to separate personal spiritual beliefs from religious beliefs which is something not done in the past. The church plays a part of a lot of peoples lives, just not a large party anymore.
I think that the death of christianity is much over stated to say the least. One has to just look at history to see it effects on the past ;present and likely in the future. Just the fact that surveys after serveys show the belief i god at 70% shows that even with loss ithsoe who do not attendent serrvices is down i mnay areas 'its not fro basic beliefs really.I suspect as boomers age and retire we will see many things change.As to the anti Christian hate so on display now days by some it long been a fact know to Christian thru out history.
I think that the death of christianity is much over stated to say the least. One has to just look at history to see it effects on the past ;present and likely in the future. Just the fact that surveys after serveys show the belief i god at 70% shows that even with loss ithsoe who do not attendent serrvices is down i mnay areas 'its not fro basic beliefs really.I suspect as boomers age and retire we will see many things change.As to the anti Christian hate so on display now days by some it long been a fact know to Christian thru out history.
I agree but i see christianity as evolving in the future to one not as constrained by church dogma.
At the risk of being a cocky Judeo-christian here is my take if readers will allow me to toss a curve in the discussion. This shift to atheism is simply a predictable nearly boring and pathetic subject ...yawn. It's biblically prophecied a half dozen times and screams for a "let's move along as these atheists are the biggest idots ever to live on earth". Even lately Rabbi Jonathan Cahn has shown that as a result of America falling away from God, that God has bashed us with a series of warnings (this isn't a message to knuckle-heads so feel free to stop here...bye! Anyway, God has sent ancient warnings not withstanding the Assyrians wiping out Jerusalam in 722 BC as they fell from god,sacrificed first born to pagan gods and were immoral like America is today. Cahn a messanic Jew (of the house of Levi...nice) believes as I do that 9/11 was a mimic of Isiah 9:10 (isn't THAT special? Then blah blah blah yeah the financial crisis after God twiddled His thumbs waiting for we total fools to come back to Him . NO! we will build bigger and better as now get this you little atheist wessels. Sen Edwards and Daschele read on TV from Isiah 9:10!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me!!!?? Two of the most dispicable Godless creeps of the century reading from scripture!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry I'm so sick of atheists and secular society at times I wish we would just get nuked so they all die and evaporate! As a christian I must have charity (love) but it's a strain on my constitution . God will try to be nice but His patience is too far gone on (abortion,same sex marriage,abuse(children,wives,animals and below animals atheists that His warnings are shifting to wrath and we are a society headed for extinction evidenced by the US not anywhere in future prophecy at all. Addly I believe God loves atheists (might find them challenging?) but as the saying goes hates their sin.
Well if you really look at it church numbers have been steady for the past 30 some years so i don't feel there is a rise in atheism. What i do think is people today tend to be more likely to separate personal spiritual beliefs from religious beliefs which is something not done in the past. The church plays a part of a lot of peoples lives, just not a large party anymore.
No, the numbers have not been steady. The churches themselves have said that membership is declining
While a few report a small gain, most report declines
Quote:
1. The Roman Catholic Church; 67,117,06 members; down 0.59 percent
2. The Southern Baptist Convention; 16,266,920 members; down 0.24 percent
3. The United Methodist Church; 7,931,733 members; down 0.80 percent.
4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; 5,873,408 members; up 1.63 percent
5. The Church of God in Christ; 5,499,875 members; no change reported
6. National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.; 5,000,000 members; no change reported
7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America; 4,709,956 members; down 1.35 percent
8. National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.; 3,500,000 members; no change reported
9. Presbyterian Church (USA); 2,941,412 members; down 2.79 percent
10. Assemblies of God; 2,863,265 members; up 0.96 percent
11. African Methodist Episcopal Church; 2,500,000 members; no change reported
12. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America; 2,500,000 members; no change reported
13. Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.; 2,500,000 members; no change reported
14. The Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod (LCMS); 2,383,084 members; down 1.44 percent
15. The Episcopal Church; 2,116,749 members; down 1.76 percent
16. Churches of Christ; 1,639,495 members; no change reported
17. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America; 1,500,000 members; no change reported
18. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc.; 1,500,000 members; no change reported
19. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church; 1,400,000 members; down 3.01 percent
20. American Baptist Churches in the USA, 1,358,351, down 0.94 percent
21. Baptist Bible Fellowship International; 1,200,000; no change reported
22. United Church of Christ; 1,145,281 members; down 6.01 percent
23. Jehovah's Witnesses; 1,092,169 members; up 2.12 percent
24. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ; 1,071,616 members; no change reported
25. Church of God (Cleveland, Tenn.); 1,053,642 members; up 2.04 percent
The OP seems to have failed to grasp the difference between disbelief in God and the rejection of religion.
It matters not to me.
All that matters is that people are starting to gain the courage and intelligence to start asking questions. That makes my life much easier, since I don't have to put with as many x-tians.
As many agnostics and atheists will tell you, rejecting religion is often the first step in the move toward agnosticism and atheism.
Of course there is a difference between being atheist and rejecting an organized religion but retaining a god belief. It's THE difference between an atheist and a not-atheist.
Religion or no, I do think the belief that there is a personal relationship with god in some form (if not a standard institutional form) still brings up many of the same questions and options for... mischief. Does god hate the unbeliever? Is the believer still saved or something? Do bad things happen to deserving people? Is there free will to do evil? Frankly, I think it is the belief that there is a personal god involved in human affairs that does the societal damage. The rigid church-type groups do damage to an individual person, especially a child who cannot fend off dogma, and absorbs "original sin" and "going to hell" and so forth. The only belief I don't fear is a general deist belief that the universe and its stuff started with god but that's the end of the involvement.
Yet again, I'm glad that I wasn't raised with beliefs or religion and that I live and work in quite a secular environment (if you call secular an area loaded with recovering Catholics).
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