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Old 04-19-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,748,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
...and Steven Feldman is 'who' exactly??
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
839 posts, read 481,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
You got it.

"When Sir Leonard Woolley rediscovered ancient Ur in the 1920s, he found stupendous royal treasures but he also found a city rich in more everyday items. Abraham, like others at Ur, may have lived in a two-story house made of brick and boasting a courtyard, reception rooms, a kitchen, bedrooms, even a toilet. His wife Sarah, like other women in the city, may have worn intricately designed headdresses and other jewelry. Abraham and Sarah would even have enjoyed music. Woolley discovered a beautifully carved lyre overlayed with gold at Ur’s royal cemetery. The ancient Mesopotamians were well versed in music; cuneiform tablets containing musical notations and dating to about1800 B.C.E. have been unearthed at Ugarit, in northwestern Mesopotamia." http://cojs.org/cojswiki/Biblical_Hi..._Feldman,_COJS.


This from a religious website does not prove the use of coins before 600 B.C.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
839 posts, read 481,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Getting back to my point that Joseph really was in Egypt:

Top Egyptian Daily: Joseph’s Era Coins Found in Egypt

An Egyptian paper claims that archaeologists have discovered ancient Egyptian coins bearing the
name and image of the Biblical Joseph.

The report in Al-Ahram boasts that the find backs up the Koran’s claim that coins were used in Egypt
during Joseph’s period. Joseph, son of the Patriarch Jacob, died around 1450 B.C.E., according to
Jewish sources.

"The researcher identified coins from many different periods, including coins that bore special
markings identifying them as being from the era of Joseph. Among these, there was one coin that
had an inscription on it, and an image of a cow symbolizing Pharaoh's dream about the seven fat
cows and seven lean cows, and the seven green stalks of grain and seven dry stalks of grain. It was
found that the inscriptions of this early period were usually simple, since writing was still in its early
stages, and consequently there was difficulty in deciphering the writing on these coins. But the
research team [managed to] translate [the writing on the coin] by comparing it to the earliest
known hieroglyphic texts… Joseph's name appears twice on this coin, written in hieroglyphs: once
the original name, Joseph, and once his Egyptian name, Saba Sabani, which was given to him by
Pharaoh when he became treasurer. There is also an image of Joseph, who was part of the Egyptian
administration at the time." Joseph Era Coins Found in Egypt - Defense/Middle East - News - Israel National News

Also: Leading Egyptian Daily 'Al-Ahram' Reports: Coins from Era of Biblical Joseph Found in Egypt Leading Egyptian Daily 'Al-Ahram' Reports: Coins from Era of Biblical Joseph Found in Egypt

Thought the above interesting in proving the story of Joseph was legit.

so where are the pictures of the coins showing the pictures of Joseph?
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:08 PM
 
2,043 posts, read 739,531 times
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I am afraid I am too late to head this one off before you dig your heels in on this one Eusebius, but I'll try.

Let me point out a couple of issues:
  • As best I can tell, none of this has appeared in any archeological publication, religious or other wise, in the 3 years since the newspaper article was published. There is literally no existing scholarship here, just third hand newspaper accounts.
  • Second, there appear to be no existing publications at all by the purported head of the research team. I cannot find him mentioned in any other source but the one article. No publications, no biography, no faculty listing, nothing.
  • There is absolutely no confirmation that any of this. No one else has even been able to evaluate the theory, because it doesn't appear to have ever been presented to the scholarly community.
In fact, let me point you to the best available information I could find, from sources who are ideologically on the same team as yourself.
The Southern Baptists
Biblical Archeology



In addition, the coin guys weighed in on this...


Really what we have is a news article in Egypt that cites a researcher, who doesn't appear to be a part of any academic community, using the Koran as evidence that a collection disparate, vaguely roundish charms, scarabs, and medallions are in fact coins (essentially just because the Koran said so). An Israeli source that has a reputation as a propaganda outlet picked it up, and it has been spread on the internet. The buzz died out in about a month, and it has never resurfaced.


In short this is just not credible. Even Evangelical biblical archeologists are not buying it. Perhaps you shouldn't either...


I looked at your second link, and I am not sure exactly what is being claimed there. It looks very strongly that it is a fraud, since the picture of the supposed tablet is not a tablet at all and was never a part of a burial site. It is a (very famous) rock in a wadi in Saudi Arabia, near a purported location of Mt Sinai. I strongly suspect the entire thing is made up. I could not find any independent confirmation that such a tablet even exists.


I have to know...Where do you get this stuff? Does it come in an email forward? Do you just search for stuff online to see what "ah-ha" you can dig up? How did you even stumble on a three year old story that fizzled into oblivion in a month?


Also, is there a reason you don't research this stuff before posting? I mean did you realize that biblical archaeologists regard this as doubtful, unproven and suspect, and did so within a month of the original newspaper article? Or do you just uncritically latch onto anything that appears to support your preconceived belief without fact checking? It would really help the consistency of your own belief if you would do your own homework instead of relying on us atheist to help you. Just a thought...


-NoCapo
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,748,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
I have to know...Where do you get this stuff?
WND and other similar scholarly papers.
Quote:
Do you just search for stuff online to see what "ah-ha" you can dig up?

Or do you just uncritically latch onto anything that appears to support your preconceived belief without fact checking?
Now you're getting it. Good de-bunking work by the way.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:28 PM
 
10,683 posts, read 5,172,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
This from a religious website does not prove the use of coins before 600 B.C.
It proves Abraham was not a bronze age idiot. He lived many years prior to his great great grandson Joseph.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
839 posts, read 481,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
It proves Abraham was not a bronze age idiot. He live many years prior to his great great grandson Joseph.
so where are the pictures of these coins?
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:36 PM
 
10,683 posts, read 5,172,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post


Also, is there a reason you don't research this stuff before posting? I mean did you realize that biblical archaeologists regard this as doubtful, unproven and suspect, and did so within a month of the original newspaper article? Or do you just uncritically latch onto anything that appears to support your preconceived belief without fact checking? It would really help the consistency of your own belief if you would do your own homework instead of relying on us atheist to help you. Just a thought...


-NoCapo
I did research it before posting. Urging Caution: A Brief Comment on the So-Called 'Joseph Coins' urged caution before accepting the coins bearing Joseph but they didn't give me enough evidence to sway me otherwise.

BTW, I don't align myself with Southern Baptists.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:37 PM
 
10,683 posts, read 5,172,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
so where are the pictures of these coins?
Exactly.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
839 posts, read 481,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Exactly.

Where are the pictures of these coins? why can't you poduce evidence that these coins exist? how can you expect anybody yo believe you of you failed to produce evidence of these coins?
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