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Old 04-23-2012, 12:22 AM
 
14,727 posts, read 33,310,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
The Mormons do give a lot, but they also expect a lot in return. It wouldn't hurt for her to check into it, but be she's got to want to be one of them (and give back too) if this "plan" is going to work.

Otherwise, it's much easier to try a stint as "welfare queen" on Uncle Sam's dime.
Welfare queen sounds better for her. Make sure it comes with a tiara of entitlement. The message she'll get from LDS may be too abrupt and not what she wants to hear.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
Welfare queen sounds better for her. Make sure it comes with a tiara of entitlement. The message she'll get from LDS may be too abrupt and not what she wants to hear.
If she just wants to be on the receiving end for the rest of her life, accepting government welfare would undoubtedly be the better move. If she wants to actually change her life for the better, then what she learns as a member of the LDS Church may be far, far superior. The Church has programs where mentors work with people one-on-one, helping them learn to be self-sufficient, productive members of society. The support system is excellent, but it's only as good as the recipient wants to make it. The bottom line is, it's all up to her.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
7,583 posts, read 6,052,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
The Mormons do give a lot, but they also expect a lot in return. It wouldn't hurt for her to check into it, but be she's got to want to be one of them (and give back too) if this "plan" is going to work.

Otherwise, it's much easier to try a stint as "welfare queen" on Uncle Sam's dime.

She definatly has "entitlement issues" always has, blame the parents for that.
She never should have had kids, she has 3, she was never much involved with them as I said she had kids because others around her were and she did not want to feel left out. (ie she had kids she would not be able to support for all the wrong reasons)

There is a 2000 mile buffer zone between her/them and me/u. That Must not be breached or compromised. She is not on a spiritual path which is successful or funtional for her and her kids and her state of affairs is cearly proof of this.

She is very lazy. The LDS church may not like that, may not tolerate it and who knows may inspire her to get up and do for a change.

I have recommended over and over again (Well in years past before I moved far far away) that she be institutionalized. I was told that this would not be possible as she does not have a valid diagnosis to justify it, and she is supposedly able to function outside of an institutional setting.
IF you consider living on handouts from mommy and daddy, having a homosexual daughter who ran away with an adult female already, a son expelled from school for drugs and another with failing grades "Functional"
In her early 40s , divorced 3 times, uneducated, unskilled, irresponsible......

2000 Miles will remain.

I do not agree with LDS Theology any more or less than any other like it. BUT If she did get involved, it may be the first time she ever got herself into a commitment and had support to continue it and stick with it (Again blame the upbringing for that) . IT might be the "commitment" she needs.
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Golden, CO
2,108 posts, read 2,887,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
She definatly has "entitlement issues" always has, blame the parents for that.
She never should have had kids, she has 3, she was never much involved with them as I said she had kids because others around her were and she did not want to feel left out. (ie she had kids she would not be able to support for all the wrong reasons)

There is a 2000 mile buffer zone between her/them and me/u. That Must not be breached or compromised. She is not on a spiritual path which is successful or funtional for her and her kids and her state of affairs is cearly proof of this.

She is very lazy. The LDS church may not like that, may not tolerate it and who knows may inspire her to get up and do for a change.

I have recommended over and over again (Well in years past before I moved far far away) that she be institutionalized. I was told that this would not be possible as she does not have a valid diagnosis to justify it, and she is supposedly able to function outside of an institutional setting.
IF you consider living on handouts from mommy and daddy, having a homosexual daughter who ran away with an adult female already, a son expelled from school for drugs and another with failing grades "Functional"
In her early 40s , divorced 3 times, uneducated, unskilled, irresponsible......

2000 Miles will remain.

I do not agree with LDS Theology any more or less than any other like it. BUT If she did get involved, it may be the first time she ever got herself into a commitment and had support to continue it and stick with it (Again blame the upbringing for that) . IT might be the "commitment" she needs.
As I have said earlier in the thread, it would not be a bad idea to suggest joining a Mormon church to her for the reasons you and others have stated.

However, I do want to stress that there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a gay daughter. That is not a sign of the inability of the parent to function. Having a (teenage?) daughter run away with an adult isn't necessarily a sign of poor parenting either, although it could be, but some kids are bound and determined to do somethings regardless of how on top of things and nurturing and guiding a parent might be.

To be civilly committed to a mental hospital against a person's will takes a recommendation from a mental health professional that a person is an immediate threat to themselves or others (in otherwords, suicidal or homicidal due to a psychological disorder). It doesn't sound like she is either suicidal or an immediate threat to others, so she should not be civilly committed. However, it does sound like she could benefit from some psychological treatment, possibly including a brief voluntary stay in a mental hospital depending on factors that might exist in her case that I am not aware of.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:43 PM
 
2,469 posts, read 3,122,866 times
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LargeKingCat,
It depends on the area & ward/congregation, but the LDS church is oriented mostly to couples with children. They have single wards, which are their own creation.
But most LDS wards (besides single wards) cater to keeping families intact. In my experience, unfortunately, those who don't fit the family mold are often judged as different & well, not fitting the mold. This is not Christ-like, but I see it all the time whether it's racial prejudice, or women gossiping about any potential threat they see in single women.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
Eventually, the commitments they will expect of your sister will cause her to run in the other direction. If your sister can't commit to marriages and can't take care of her kids, how is she going to commit to a religion? Any religion?
Exactly.
She & her children will be required to meet certain requirements to be baptized.
10% income is required to be considered temple/celesital (heavenly) worthy.
She will likely be asked to do at least 2 callings (volunteer jobs): 1) visiting teaching, & 2) whatever they need (cubscouts, cleaning church buildings, etc.)
If she receives financial assistance from the church, she will be required to attend church every Sunday & do whatever else is asked of her (ie work at a church facility).

I imagine it would help her to be around support - through family (especially getting a good father figure - grandpa, uncle), or finding support groups.

Last edited by SuperSoul; 04-23-2012 at 01:51 PM..
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:30 PM
 
14,727 posts, read 33,310,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
LargeKingCat,
It depends on the area & ward/congregation, but the LDS church is oriented mostly to couples with children. They have single wards, which are their own creation.
But most LDS wards (besides single wards) cater to keeping families intact. In my experience, unfortunately, those who don't fit the family mold are often judged as different & well, not fitting the mold. This is not Christ-like, but I see it all the time whether it's racial prejudice, or women gossiping about any potential threat they see in single women.


Exactly.
She & her children will be required to meet certain requirements to be baptized.
10% income is required to be considered temple/celesital (heavenly) worthy.
She will likely be asked to do at least 2 callings (volunteer jobs): 1) visiting teaching, & 2) whatever they need (cubscouts, cleaning church buildings, etc.)
If she receives financial assistance from the church, she will be required to attend church every Sunday & do whatever else is asked of her (ie work at a church facility).
Yes. Two things, regarding the bold:
1) It's not Christ-like, yet it extends into their employment practices. If the lady in question does not create a nuclear family, I'm sure the suburban Mormon ladies in SLC will not consider her "tea" material.
2) There's even a price to get into heaven? Where is she going to come up with 10%, when she has so much else on her plate? Ditto for a lot of other working stiffs who are trying to make ends meet these days.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,997 posts, read 29,828,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
Yes. Two things, regarding the bold:
1) It's not Christ-like, yet it extends into their employment practices.
What are you getting at? If a person is actually going to be employed by the Church, he has to be a member of the Church. So what?

Quote:
If the lady in question does not create a nuclear family, I'm sure the suburban Mormon ladies in SLC will not consider her "tea" material.
So does the woman in question live in Salt Lake City? I can't recall seeing that mentioned. That's a very stereotypical but inaccurate picture you've painted. Mormon women are no more all alike than Catholic women.

Quote:
2) There's even a price to get into heaven?
Wow. Ease up on the animosity. The answer is 'no.' The Mormon Church's concept of who gets to go to Heaven is more all-encompassing than pretty much any other Christian denomination. What's the price according to your Church's theology? A few "Hail Marys" followed by some "Our Fathers"?

Quote:
Where is she going to come up with 10%, when she has so much else on her plate? Ditto for a lot of other working stiffs who are trying to make ends meet these days.
That's the whole point of the Church Welfare System. If she were to pay her tithing, her bishop would make sure her needs were met. The thing is, most bishops learn very early on to see through people who have joined the Church just to get their bills paid, a roof over their heads and food on the table. She would be pretty unlikely to be able to pull the wool over her bishop's eyes for very long, if at all.

Last edited by Katzpur; 04-23-2012 at 07:59 PM..
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:36 PM
 
14,727 posts, read 33,310,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
What are you getting at? If a person is actually going to be employed by the Church, he has to be a member of the Church. So what?

Wow. Ease up on the animosity. The answer is 'no.' The Mormon Church's concept of who gets to go to Heaven is more all-encompassing than pretty much any other Christian denomination. What's the price according to your Church's theology? A few "Hail Marys" followed by some "Our Fathers"?

She would be pretty unlikely to be able to pull the wool over her bishop's eyes for very long, if at all.
1) Mormons always prefer to hire their own, unless a) there are specific skills that they can't do without, or are in a tougher staffing environment, certainly not these days, and 2) those people outside their religion are simpatico to their LDS style...that is, they are very family-oriented. I guess that's a good thing; that way, someone who wouldn't mesh with them wouldn't wind up working in an unnecessarily adversarial situation. Mind you, I've worked with LDS folks in a peer capacity who were great, but the operative word is "peer."

2) I don't bother myself with what it takes to get to heaven. I don't know and, with each passing day, I just do what I am supposed to do and what I can, so I care even less, having heard the basic message of Christianity and having accepted it. There is no recommended tithing. I throw some greenbacks into the basket and call it a day. However, I don't know how anyone in your religion can intelligently argue and support that people are blessed in "tiers" according to their familial status and number of kids upon their expiration.

3) Sure, clergy members have seen and heard it all. That's why I don't think the lady under discussion is a candidate, for the Mormons, for Catholic Social Services, for Lutheran Family Services, or any of these groups. I knew of a never-married attractive but troubled woman in her 40s in a major Western city that was down on her luck, and was moving from place to place until she could settle in and get another job. A friend said she found a place to stay with some Mormon girls. I wondered how that was going to work out since this woman was a "floozy," for lack of a better word. I then asked my friend what happened to her friend who moved in with these girls. She told me that it didn't work out, because she was being pressured to convert.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:49 PM
 
Location: So California
8,704 posts, read 11,080,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
no, no guarantees, but based on Mormons I know personally and have known, the odds would be in her favor, and the situation should improve for her.
Of course no guarantee she would pursue this, I am simply suggesting she look into it. Clearly though, her beliefs and thinking proesses have gotten her into the situation she is in now, and she needs help. I know LDS has helped many others.

The odds would be in her favor, because the church teaches correct principles. There are no guarantees because it is always up to the individual. And I would never recommend this unless she came to the same conclusion for the right reasons.

Some of the other comments in this thread I have to laugh at. The stereotypes and misconceptions run rampant....
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:53 PM
 
Location: So California
8,704 posts, read 11,080,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
1) Mormons always prefer to hire their own, unless a) there are specific skills that they can't do without, or are in a tougher staffing environment, certainly not these days, and 2) those people outside their religion are simpatico to their LDS style...that is, they are very family-oriented. I guess that's a good thing; that way, someone who wouldn't mesh with them wouldn't wind up working in an unnecessarily adversarial situation. Mind you, I've worked with LDS folks in a peer capacity who were great, but the operative word is "peer."
As does any group if all other things are equal!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
2) I don't bother myself with what it takes to get to heaven. I don't know and, with each passing day, I just do what I am supposed to do and what I can, so I care even less, having heard the basic message of Christianity and having accepted it. There is no recommended tithing. I throw some greenbacks into the basket and call it a day. However, I don't know how anyone in your religion can intelligently argue and support that people are blessed in "tiers" according to their familial status and number of kids upon their expiration.
Thats fine. Recommended tithing? The definition of "tithe" is one tenth. Number of kids doesnt mean anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
3) Sure, clergy members have seen and heard it all. That's why I don't think the lady under discussion is a candidate, for the Mormons, for Catholic Social Services, for Lutheran Family Services, or any of these groups. I knew of a never-married attractive but troubled woman in her 40s in a major Western city that was down on her luck, and was moving from place to place until she could settle in and get another job. A friend said she found a place to stay with some Mormon girls. I wondered how that was going to work out since this woman was a "floozy," for lack of a better word. I then asked my friend what happened to her friend who moved in with these girls. She told me that it didn't work out, because she was being pressured to convert.
She's a candidate if she decided on her own. Thats all.
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